harsh Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 ok...now i personally belive that some day very soon that law of conservation of energy is going to prooven wrong.......my question is from where do atoms get their energy to continously survive??wont some where down the line energy have to be created?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuhrerkeebs Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 If by surviving you mean "not coming apart", the energy is called potential energy. The atom stays together mainly because of the strong nuclear force. This force has an energy potential. You can find the energy potential of the force by solving the Diff. Equ. equation F=-Grad V, where F is the force and V is the potential energy. So, you could say the energy the atom needs to survive comes from the strong nuclear force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuhrerkeebs Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 And why do you think the law of the conservation of energy is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 well i think law of conservation of energy for sure is breakable.....some thime back there had to be energy and matter creation other wise there would be no universe...and that creationof energy and matter had set in some equibrillic force that stops us from energy andmatter creation , distruction and if we can identify that force then law of conservation of energy can be broken.....and one more question how does the neucleus have P.E......if we can replicate the whole atom using charges can we create energy , matter?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuhrerkeebs Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Well, there are everything-from-nothing theories that allow mass and energy to come into our universe WITHOUT violating conservation laws. It's complicated stuff, you might want to check into it. The nucleus has charge, charge creates an electric field, and the electric field can, again, be given in terms of it's potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 The energy used to create the universe probably came from a parent universe. Either that or there is a deficite of energy somewhere else in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 uncertainty principle. some energy is borrowed to make matter, and somewhere else, there is an equal amount of negative energy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 ok...now i personally belive that some day very soon that law of conservation of energy is going to prooven wrong.......my question is from where do atoms get their energy to continously survive??wont some where down the line energy have to be created?? Atoms don't need an energy source to exist. There's no friction or anything similar at that level. An atom, in fact, has less energy than the constituent particles. Because there are attractive forces (nuclear for the nucleus, as was mentioned, and electromagnetic for the electrons) you can and do form a bound state, which requires the release of energy. Once you have formed that state there is no need to do anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 humm intresting but there has to be some dampining force at the lavel aslo ...other wise it can ve compared to a bounded vaccume and i dont think it possible...not sure...but if what u say is rite can be creat an artifiical atom and then there eill be like no need of energy ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuhrerkeebs Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 humm intresting but there has to be some dampining force at the lavel aslo ...other wise it can ve compared to a bounded vaccume and i dont think it possible...not sure...but if what u say is rite can be creat an artifiical atom and then there eill be like no need of energy ...... How can an atom be compared to a bounded vacuum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 In vaccume there are no external dampining forces and as u said that at thoese levels there are no dampining forces and hence i drew up the comparison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuhrerkeebs Posted August 16, 2004 Share Posted August 16, 2004 Yeah, but a vacuum doesn't have mass or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harsh Posted August 16, 2004 Author Share Posted August 16, 2004 quote " Because there are attractive forces (nuclear for the nucleus, as was mentioned, and electromagnetic for the electrons) you can and do form a bound state, which requires the release of energy. Once you have formed that state there is no need to do anything else. " so if we can replicate the charges to create this attractive forces and form the bound state using other thing , can we create a atom?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yes and no, harsh. We can create an atom from protons by smashing them together at high speeds and pressures. The process of fusion. Because two protons together weigh less than their individual masses, the difference is converted into energy. Thats what makes the stars shine. We are within grasp of being able to replicate the conditions in the core of the sun here on earth, hot fusion. But we still require the protons themselves, the process of creating them would consume more energy than it generates because a protons constituants don't live very long when you have them by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 why not strip electrons from hydrogen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 quote " Because there are attractive forces (nuclear for the nucleus' date=' as was mentioned, and electromagnetic for the electrons) you can and do form a bound state, which requires the release of energy. Once you have formed that state there is no need to do anything else. " so if we can replicate the charges to create this attractive forces and form the bound state using other thing , can we create a atom??[/quote'] Any two opposite charges can create a bound state - this happens with Hydrogen and electron/positron pairs, but for the latter the ground state is when they annihilate, so this isn't a particularly long-lived condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drz Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 well i think law of conservation of energy for sure is breakable..... I read something on newscientist a while back about the 2nd law of thermodynamics breaking down at the nano scale. I believe this was called browning motion or something, check out the nano tech section at http://www.newscientist.com some thime back there had to be energy and matter creation other wise there would be no universe... Or, the universe we currently live in could merely be different form of the energy that has always existed. Nothing but speculation when you get into pre-big bang talks. and that creationof energy and matter had set in some equibrillic force that stops us from energy andmatter creation If I'm not mistaken, maybe I am, but I believe matter can be created, only energy cannot be created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 I read something on newscientist a while back about the 2nd law of thermodynamics breaking down at the nano scale. I believe this was called browning motion or something, check out the nano tech section at [url']www.newscientist.com[/url] here is a better link for it. http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/tech/article.jsp?id=99992572⊂=Nanotechnology that is the article he was talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deerajal Posted April 16, 2009 Share Posted April 16, 2009 all the energy and matter that is around us has originated from the big bang.The energy and matter was concentrated in small volume ,which exploded and big bang occured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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