Pomlom Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hello, There is a lot of discussion about whether photons are energy or matter. What do you think??? Pomlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I think they are energy. They possess no mass, and only exhibit particle "behaviour". Any atomic interaction resulting in energy formation, produces photons, thats reason enough for me to believe they are energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 They are neither. They have energy, but they are not energy itself. They are not matter (although this is just from the definition of 'matter'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Define matter. If you were to look in a physics dictionary you'd probably get something along the lines of something with the property of mass, in this case a photon isn't matter because it doesn't have mass. However that is not the only definiton that is used. Photons are photons, the descriptions of 'matter' and 'energy' in this conext are probably too vague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 What is matter without mass ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 What is matter without mass ? Well I can think of an exmaple: when counting the mass in the universe photons are often included under the heading 'baryonic matter'; of course as well as not strictly being matter, they're not strictly baryonic either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 If you come down to the definition of matter itself, what would you list as the common attributes of matter ? Wouldn't one of the attributes (intuitively atleast) be possession of mass ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 If you come down to the definition of matter itself' date=' what would you list as the common attributes of matter ?Wouldn't one of the attributes (intuitively atleast) be possession of mass ?[/quote'] I suppose that's true, but I have heard the term matter used much more generally many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I have heard the term matter used much more generally many times An example at this point would be very apt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I call them manergy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 That of which the sensible universe and all existent bodies are composed; anything which has extension, occupies space, or is perceptible by the senses; body; substance http://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/matter clearly photons would fall under this definition. The dividing line is not clear, as though a single photon does not have mass it is possible for a system (when considered as a system) of photons to have mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 The definition seems quite vague. I supose there can never be a clear distinction between matter and energy, photons might just be what bridges the gap in between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 There's also the problem of defining particles as energy, as all particles are energy to some extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomlom Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 Hmm... Then i think we all agree with atleast this: we seriously need to upgrade the meaning of both matter and energy. But what would the new definition be.... Pomlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Upto a point it is alright to say that particles possess energy, but the problems leak in when they start converting themselves into energy. It almost makes me wonder if a way to look at it would be to think of matter as a condensed/stored/archived form of energy. Photons would then be an active interconvertable type of matter/energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomlom Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99992497 Read this article. I dont think light is interconvertible between matter and energy but i think it is a thing that can act as both matter and energy. Pomlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pulkit Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 I agree it behaves as both (that actually goes even without saying, given that photons exhibit phenomena such as "exherting pressure") But light can generate matter (pair production) and matter can obviously convert to light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomlom Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 Which means it is possible to make light into "energy sheilds"(another one of my 'just theorising' moods is coming over me now)??? you can make light temporarily into some sort of matter to delfect or absorb the power of bullets etc. Once the danger is gone....turn that matter back into light! If anyone here plays Halo PC, this fits in perfectly with the mastercheif's energy sheild(that he has with his suit). Pomlom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 Pomlom.. Altough far fetched but if u got light to only produce Antiparticles it migt be possible. bullets would desintegrate when hitting the shield of positrons maybe. But it dosen't seem enough since the hadrons (atom core) will keep goin and still kill you.. *yeah i know im far off.. but it's fun sometimes* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 isn't matter just a form of energy and vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pomlom Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 Where did you learn that from??? I know that most matter can be converted into energy but is it really possible that most energy can be converted into matter??? Pomlom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 As i see it it's all energy just manifesting itself in different ways.. And Mass is one normal way. Waves are another. Might even be more but i guees we don't know that yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 As i see it it's all energy just manifesting itself in different ways.. And Mass is one normal way. Waves are another. Might even be more but i guees we don't know that yet... that's exactly what i was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 that's exactly what i was trying to say. Yeah u triggered my response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ydoaPs Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 interesting thought about possible other forms besides matter and energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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