Caleb Posted November 2, 2009 Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have been wondering how to calculate the angle of a bond in a chemical compound. I have found an old thread by Chemsiddiqui on the subject but no one replyed to it. As I have been learning more about covalent and ionic bonds in chemicals, I have been doodling some of my own on paper, now I am up to the bond angles and I want to create chemicals (on paper of course) that could actually exist. Thanks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanntrude Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 i'm afraid you've got quite a bit to learn before getting to the point where you can predict the bond angles. In the course I teach, covalent bonds and ionic bonds are in chapter 2 and VSEPR (the theory which helps predict bond angles) is in chapter 11. A good chemistry textbook and some friends or people with a bit more knowledge of chemistry to bounce questions off will help if you want to go faster than your school is going. sorry to not answer your question fully but it'd take a good few pages and even then it might not be useful to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenprogrammin Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 (edited) I think you should really consider VSEPR as he mentioned. Also, know about the electron configurations and the OFBAU principle. Lastly, check out a good schaum's outline book on organic chemistry. Good Luck! Edited November 3, 2009 by greenprogrammin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.syntax Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 i'm afraid you've got quite a bit to learn before getting to the point where you can predict the bond angles. In the course I teach, covalent bonds and ionic bonds are in chapter 2 and VSEPR (the theory which helps predict bond angles) is in chapter 11. A good chemistry textbook and some friends or people with a bit more knowledge of chemistry to bounce questions off will help if you want to go faster than your school is going. sorry to not answer your question fully but it'd take a good few pages and even then it might not be useful to you. REPLY: I thought of you because I wanted to know if that molecular modeling kit you suggested I buy would in some way: as in I use it to make a model of any given molecule and could I or could I not, simply measure the different bond angles using a [ protractor ? ] I really do appreciate the advise you give me. ...Dr.Syntax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caleb Posted November 3, 2009 Author Share Posted November 3, 2009 i'm afraid you've got quite a bit to learn before getting to the point where you can predict the bond angles. In the course I teach, covalent bonds and ionic bonds are in chapter 2 and VSEPR (the theory which helps predict bond angles) is in chapter 11. A good chemistry textbook and some friends or people with a bit more knowledge of chemistry to bounce questions off will help if you want to go faster than your school is going. sorry to not answer your question fully but it'd take a good few pages and even then it might not be useful to you. I think you should really consider VSEPR as he mentioned. Also, know about the electron configurations and the OFBAU principle. Lastly, check out a good schaum's outline book on organic chemistry. Good Luck! Thanks for the advice! I guess creating some real chemicals is farther down the road for me, I will just have to slowly work my way up as the chemicals I invent become more and more real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 REPLY: I thought of you because I wanted to know if that molecular modeling kit you suggested I buy would in some way: as in I use it to make a model of any given molecule and could I or could I not, simply measure the different bond angles using a [ protractor ? ] I really do appreciate the advise you give me. ...Dr.Syntax Such a modelling kit has preformed holes, and does not account for polarity or atom size. In methane, all bond angles are 109,5°, in water of which the oxygen has the same orbital configuration as the carbon, the H-O-H angle is slightly less than 109,5° because the free electron pairs repulse eachother a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanntrude Posted November 3, 2009 Share Posted November 3, 2009 Such a modelling kit has preformed holes, and does not account for polarity or atom size. In methane, all bond angles are 109,5°, in water of which the oxygen has the same orbital configuration as the carbon, the H-O-H angle is slightly less than 109,5° because the free electron pairs repulse eachother a bit. nevertheless, a molecular modelling kit will give you a good approximation to the bond angles as long as you use the right atoms from the kit. the trouble is you have to know VSEPR and Lewis theory to be able to choose the right atoms. For instance, if you have a molecule with one central atom and four identical terminal atoms ([ce]XeF4[/ce] for instance), you'd be looking for a central atom in the box of atoms which had four holes. You'd find at least two types of atom like that. which one would you choose? the one with tetrahedral arrangement of holes or the one with four holes all in a plane? Lewis theory and VSEPR will tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenprogrammin Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hey Caleb... It is kinda hard to find a chemical that isn't alread in use. I find it more interesting to use living organisms to make most of the chemicals for me. This is along the lines of Metabolic Engineering. You don't really have to do much except study the organism and determine what is possible. I'm not sure what your chemical/s of interest are but organic and inorganic synthesis from simple precursors is not always the easiest route. There are sooo many plants, animals, fungi, etc... that could be studied and discovered. These are some of the greatest chemical reactors you could harness. Think about it!!! peace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanntrude Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Hey Caleb... It is kinda hard to find a chemical that isn't alread in use. I find it more interesting to use living organisms to make most of the chemicals for me. This is along the lines of Metabolic Engineering. You don't really have to do much except study the organism and determine what is possible. I'm not sure what your chemical/s of interest are but organic and inorganic synthesis from simple precursors is not always the easiest route. There are sooo many plants, animals, fungi, etc... that could be studied and discovered. These are some of the greatest chemical reactors you could harness. Think about it!!! peace! I've made a total of 50 or more compounds which had previously never been made before. However, you're right that it's easier your way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenprogrammin Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 Nice.. I had considered organic synthesis a long time ago. But then I started looking into the Grignard Reagents. This was really interesting. I actually am still interested in the Grignard reagents but I havn't had time... lol You should look into it if you are interested in organic synthesis. gud luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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