ennui Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 An article appeared on BBC News this morning highlighting a report which argues that so-called prestigious professions such as law and medicine are still largely reserved for people from wealthy backgrounds. I've read a lot of articles similar to this one. But what has struck me is that being a scientist is not ever mentioned as a prestigious profession alongside law and medicine. Do you think that science ought to be regarded as a prestigious field, alongside the more common ones? (I know that this is more problematic than law for example, as "science" is more open-ended as to what your career actually is). But should being a scientist be as well respected as being a doctor or lawyer? From my own experience, people have never understood my motivation for becoming a scientist. When they learn of my profession, they always develop a puzzled expression. It always seems to have more of a geeky gloss to it than the sleekness of law or medicine. What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I don't even understand why law and medicine are always grouped together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 In my experience, it is prestigious, but it's also not nearly as well-paid as law and medicine, which could account for some of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pericles Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Prestigious? I think that is short for best dressed and well paid... BIG DEAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Doctors are basically specialized scientists, so science is a prestigious profession. Lawyers are not prestigious, they are prestidigious, showing a clever deceitfulness by artful mumbo jumbo and misdirection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Seriously, though, what does doctorin' have to do with lawyerin', that they always seem to be associated? Does anyone actually know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDarwin Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Doctors are basically specialized scientists, so science is a prestigious profession. I would disagree with that. Doctors use science (hopefully), and some are also scientists by virtue of being scientists, but doctorin' as such is a profession, not a science. It combines other elements. I think that's like calling social work a science, because social workers use psychology and sociology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Seriously, though, what does doctorin' have to do with lawyerin', that they always seem to be associated? Does anyone actually know? Because one sues the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDarwin Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Seriously, though, what does doctorin' have to do with lawyerin', that they always seem to be associated? Does anyone actually know? It's an historical thing. Medicine and law (and the clergy and the military) were the only respectable careers open to gentry. Business as such was too bourgeosie, although investing was acceptable. Doctors and lawyers were expected to be the principle civic leaders in their communities, so they would generally come in a lot of contact with each other and developed a sort of common professional identity. The two groups are also still educated similarly in thier own special professional schools. And they both also make more than PhDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ah, that makes sense. So the reason they're still somehow associated today even in America is just evidence that we were never totally serious about the whole "classless society" thing. Still, though, once upon a time it was only "gentlemen scholars" who would have been doing the work now done by "scientists." But I guess that was never actually a profession, per se, just a hobby nobody got paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 I think the prestige differs from country to country. Also, in different areas people seem to associate different things if you tell them you are a scientist. For instance, in Germany people (not from the academia, of course) tend to think of you like either like a lab scientist or a kind of medical doctor who does not treat people. Although I have been asked why this or that muscle hurts, I should know, as I am a biological doctor.... In the US on the other hand, most people I have met and told that I am a scientist ask:" oh, so you teach?". And as everyone knows, here being a teacher is not a prestigious job (although it would be in Japan, Korea or China at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severian Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 In my experience, being a professional scientist is not a prestigious job. At least not in the UK. It is poorly paid and regarded as something only nerds and the socially ill-equipped would do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jesus Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 i don't think all lawyers should be considered prestegious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokele Posted July 31, 2009 Share Posted July 31, 2009 Upon thinking about it, I'm rather lucky due to my field - talking about my science to people involves stories about 20 foot snakes, traipsing through tropical jungles catching things I wouldn't touch if I had any sense, and funny stories of me being mauled by various exotic creatures. As a result, I tend to give off this "crazy scientist-adventurer" vibe, which I think gets me a bit more 'street cred' than folks who work on obscure stuff or stuff it's hard to really get the public jazzed about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Yeah, I would say that it depends on what, exactly, you are working on as a scientist. Big projects like Mars Exploration or finding a cure for cancer are certainly seen as prestigious, while topics like Google Earth Physics are not likely to get you noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDarwin Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 It also might depend on how you phrase the job. "Scientist" is kind amorphous, but "professor" would probably be included with professions like law and medicine as prestigious in the sense of the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Could the apparent prestige associated with doctors and lawyers be something to to do with the fact that they are socially mobile professions and that gives them more public exposure than scientists, in general. My idea of prestige being related to how well-connected a person is throughout the socio-economic strata (read: class system). To have prestige, it's not what you know, it's who you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timo Posted August 2, 2009 Share Posted August 2, 2009 Could the apparent prestige associated with doctors and lawyers be something to to do with the fact that they are socially mobile professions and that gives them more public exposure than scientists, in general. Possibly, but I tend to doubt it. Exposure to public should -in average- lead to the conclusion that they are also just normal people. I had a related initial though, which I didn't post because it seemed slightly off-topic. But since you brought it up: My initial thought was that lawyers and physicians are considered prestigious professions because it's those professions that appear on tv most (alongside policemen and performers) - in a positive tone (soldiers, terrorists and other murderers appear a lot, too). Our impression of a lawyer is formed by Matlock (or insert any other tv series here; I don't really watch either), not by the reality of a lawyer sending the same "Dear, <insert name here>, we give you a deadline till <insert date here> to pay the money you own to our client." letter five times a day and taking 50 bucks for the fact that he knows to date to insert so that everything is formally correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Possibly, but I tend to doubt it. Exposure to public should -in average- lead to the conclusion that they are also just normal people. Not if they don't understand them, the only reason they are prestigious in the first place is because normally people come in the contact with them and can't do it themselves, but still need it done. It isn't like a builder, everyone could build a house, it would be a bit crap but it would work, very different from trying to cure a disease where most people wouldn't know where to start in isolating it or identifying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJBruce Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 It also might depend on how you phrase the job. "Scientist" is kind amorphous, but "professor" would probably be included with professions like law and medicine as prestigious in the sense of the OP. I agree scientist is a term that encapsulates many fields, all with varying pay scales and levels of education; while lawyer and doctor are terms that are always considered to refer to a person who makes a very good living and has received either a MD or JD. Also the term scientist does not necessarily refer to any specific field of employment as a science degree can led to careers. If you were to introduce your self as Dr. SoAndSo Professor of Advanced Theoretical Physics or Dr. SoAndSo Destroying the World With Miniature Black Holes you probably would be put on the same level as a lawyer or doctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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