# Can something be/exist outside time?

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Hi!

Now, I heard a religious person tell that God exists outside time.

Is this possible? I mean can something exist outside time?

I'm a christian, and with low education, so I thought I ask peope that should know, ie, you.

Just mentioned my christianity, so that you do not think me trying to disprove God or something. No. Just need to know the facts of it, ie can something exist beoynd time.

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I would have asked him/her the physics behind that statement, personally.

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if we look at the Variables rather than the specifics of the question and apply Logic to them, then we see that time is the duration between changes, so although God may be Unaffected by time relative to him, to change from one "thought" to another defaults to Duration and therefore Time.

in fact simply Observing events ropes you into this Time thing.

its pretty much inescapable

my wife on the other hand would argue this point and claim my Lab exists outside the space-time continuum however!

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Personally, I find the assertion rather meaningless. It's like asking if something can exist outside of space, or outside of the 11th dimension. Time is the fourth dimension by standard understandings, space being the first three. The concept of existence is inherently tied within those dimensions of spacetime, and there is no (testable/falsifiable) existence outside of that. It is the realm of pure conjecture being dressed up to look like science and reality.

Like I said, I see it as a meaningless question, and used to distract people further away from reality and justify a position based on faith only.

It's like asking how many DNA sequences are found in unicorns, or asking what would happen if you removed the kidneys from an oak tree, or asking what kind of giraffe would be born if an ape and a shark mated.

nice.

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I see it as a meaningless question, and used to distract people further away from reality and justify a position based on faith only.

he asked that Here, I dont see anyone being Distracted?

It's like asking how many DNA sequences are found in unicorns, or asking what would happen if you removed the kidneys from an oak tree, or asking what kind of giraffe would be born if an ape and a shark mated.

No it isnt, Time and its implications are quite understood.

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he asked that Here, I dont see anyone being Distracted?

I don't think iNow was referring to that one specific instance of the question being asked. I think he's referring to the nature of the question itself.

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he asked that Here, I dont see anyone being Distracted?

I was referring to A) The first sentence in his post (after the greeting), and B) My interpretation of why that would come up in a conversation. It's okay that you don't see it. I was not trying to force my interpretation on anyone, simply was sharing it authentically and sincerely with the person who opened this thread in an honest attempt to solicit the opinions of others.

No it isnt, Time and its implications are quite understood.

You seem to have conveniently left out the second of that two part set being discussed in the OP... While Time was part of it (and I could challenge your assertion that time is "quite understood," but won't), the other part was "God." Quite understood, is that?

Please, do give us all a definition which would allow us to test this "God" being "outside" of time. This should be educational and enriching for all of us.

Like I said, he may as well be asking how much does yellow weigh.

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged
I don't think iNow was referring to that one specific instance of the question being asked. I think he's referring to the nature of the question itself.

Thank you. That is both a fair and valid assessment.

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because it no longer needs addressing.

in my Original post I give a Simple rule to apply, and by that the rest of the questions are self answering, and it doesnt Matter what you apply to it after that, whether its God, a pendulum or a unicorn if it can experience change, its subject to time.

its like a Venn diagram, if the Universe is time, any set Inside this universe is affected by (subject to) Time, it doesnt matter what that set or variable is.

Edited by YT2095
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If we assume that heaven is subject to the (local) laws of special relativity and the god is massive, then it is not clear what is meant by existing outside time! (LOL)

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It is similar to asking what exists below -273degC or how do new galaxies keep springing up. To say that unless something can be proved scientifically it is not to be believed at all hence the theory of the existence of God is not scientific, please will someone tell me if the moneky theory has been proven? No, it cannot be if you know the basis for scientifically proving a theory. There are miriads of unanswered questions in our universe, nay our world, and because we do not understand them should only point to a much, much higher intellegence that designed and created all that is seen and unseen. The fact that we can only use not even 10% of our brain capacity tells us that the creator designed us for higher purposes but in our arrogance we blot Him out and struggle in our chook house. What happens if you travel beyond the speed of light? If the sun is millions of years old where did it get that unfathomable amount of energy to burn for so long??? Try God!

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Okay...

I would like to ask here, is is proven that time is the fourth dimension? Can it be proven? Does time exist at all? Is everything really tied to time? I mean take gravity, which scientists say bends time. If gravity is particles, then these particles would exist beoynd time, as gravitation slows time down only if these particles are existing in zero time...

Or maybe not. It gets a bit esoteric. Just wanted to understand time better so that I coudl see if something could be that is not tied to time...

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Let me put it this way. The theory of relativity is one of the most accurate theories ever devised.

In the theory, which is a mathematical model or description of nature it is stated that time is "the fourth dimension".

In this sense, i.e. the experimental/observation evidence for relativity it is proved that time is another dimension. However, one normally asks "how well does a theory agree with nature" rather than if it can be "proved correct".

A theory is said to be good if it agrees with nature well and bad if not. This is to a large extent "user defined" as it will depend on what you want to describe and at what level.

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if "it" can change "state", then its bound by Time, "It" can be anything you like, whether "it" is a unicorn a hammer or God, and state can be anything too, a Thought, a Voltage a Direction whatever...

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...I mean can something exist outside time?

...

Okay...

I would like to ask here, is is proven that time is the fourth dimension? Can it be proven? Does time exist at all? Is everything really tied to time?...

Those are good questions, Inquisitor. Easier to think about when cleanly separated from theological issues.

Physicists are undecided about time. There was just an essay contest on The Nature of Time and several world-class physicists contributed.

For some purposes it is useful to geometrize time---think of the universe as a 4-dimensional block---treat time as if it were another spatial dimension---a block containing the track of every particle back into the past and forward into the future.

That can be a useful effective model for analyzing some things but it seems to have problems at a fundamental level. So what you are raising are, in fact, open questions. Physicists haven't settled on a single idea of time. They discuss it and argue, take different positions on it.

You may have heard of the current difficulty they're having putting the two main 20th century theories together (General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics). Both are fine accurate theories that have given us a lot correct precise predictions and a lot of progress etc, but they actually have incompatible ideas of time and that is the key reason they don't fit together nicely.

Edited by Martin
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There was just an essay contest on The Nature of Time and several world-class physicists contributed.

really, i hadnt heard about it. what was the name of it, do you know? id like to read up more on it.

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I think Martin may be referring to this: http://www.fqxi.org/community/essay/winners

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Hi again!

Thank you for clearing time for me! (what a clever pun of words, we are all agog -ed)

BTW just realized the question was moot. You see, God, according to Bible, created earth in six days, so CLEARLY He is a creature of time. Well, inside christian theology, anyway. Why the geezer thought God exists outside time is a question I had better put to the said preacher the next time I see him! He clearly is a Heretic! Well, here comes the Inquisitor!

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God, according to Bible, created earth in six days, so CLEARLY He is a creature of time.

Bingo!

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Bingo!

i need a new card. should i talk to swansont?

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If we treat time as a 4th dimension. And something were travelling at the speed of light in a direction in space (along a path involving one or more of the 3 physical dimensions) relative to an observer, then that thing would not be travelling in time at all ( zero motion along the time dimension -- i.e. zero change in time )

Does it exist in time?

What if it is light itself and always travelling at the speed of light to every observer?

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If we treat time as a 4th dimension. And something were travelling at the speed of light in a direction in space (along a path involving one or more of the 3 physical dimensions) relative to an observer, then that thing would not be travelling in time at all ( zero motion along the time dimension -- i.e. zero change in time )

Does it exist in time?

What if it is light itself and always travelling at the speed of light to every observer?

This has been discussed may times in this forum before.

You cannot define a proper time for light-like world lines.

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That's my point

One could say it doesn't exist in time.

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