aman Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Since an absolute vacuum is only empty time/space, how can it be bent by gravity if it does not have a mass greater than 0? Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Gravity acts on space-time, influences on mass are incidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 What exactly is empty space? I can't quite fathom it, and my Chemistry teacher was no help in explaining... "There's empty space between gas particles..." But I don't comprehend emptiness, because even in room that we say is "empty" there are gases and walls and a floor and a ceiling. I don't know, maybe it's just a mental block, but if anyone would try and explain it to me I'd really appreciate it. Isn't there something even where there's nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 There's just the space-time continuum. There's not quite as much "empty" space as you think here on Earth. Neutrinos, radiation (which, by the way, is present throughout the universe, and all though massless, is all pervading.. the cosmic background.) And of course on Earth we have cell phone signals, radio, television, and satellite all filling the "empty" space. In your example, the room isn't empty. What we consider empty isn't the same as truly empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ami Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by fafalone Gravity acts on space-time, influences on mass are incidental. how can you say it's incedental? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 A curvature in space-time causes the "attraction" of gravity. Gravity doesn't cause the objects to move directly. If this were the case, gravity could not act on light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 even truly empty space (neutrinos et al) isn't empty at all on account of quantum fluctuation wossnames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katie Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Come again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted November 22, 2002 Author Share Posted November 22, 2002 If you go out 28 billion light years from the big bang, you should be surrounded by a vacuum of space-time that has had no relationship to our universe. If you brought along a black hole, then space time should look distorted to an easily measurable amount by gravity around it but only if there is mass also in the space to make it evident. If there is no mass out there other than the black hole then the warp of space-time becomes a moot point. I think. Am I close? Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
424319 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 There is not gravity, only motion of time-space curvature. Reference: THING AND ITS LAW ( INBN 1-58939-525-5) published by Virtualbookworm.com publishing INC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 424319 said in post # :There is not gravity, only motion of time-space curvature. Reference: THING AND ITS LAW ( INBN 1-58939-525-5) published by Virtualbookworm.com publishing INC. According to the current models, or to a new theory? If the latter, bad form for not pointing it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losfomot Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 aman said in post # :If there is no mass out there other than the black hole then the warp of space-time becomes a moot point. I think. Am I close? Just aman No. If space-time is warped by a black hole then it is warped. It does not matter if there is other matter around to feel the effects (gravity) of that warp or not. You seem to be struggling with the old philosophical question "If a tree falls in the woods and there is nobody around to hear it, does it make a sound?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I heard a wizard did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted April 2, 2004 Author Share Posted April 2, 2004 Looking back again at a black hole by itself in empty space, would the space around it be effected by having a higher potential for having those bits of matter pop out of empty space? It would seem intuitive that space compressed or warped by gravity would have a higher than zero energy stored in it. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest benson-az Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I am amused at the fact that many of the world's greatest scientists routinely use the term "space-time continuum" because it sounds like words from fools. One of the bedrocks of science is the use of concepts based on entities or forces that are perceived as entities. However, neither space nor time can be proven to exist. So, when the that nefarious term is used, it actually means "the absolutely continuous and homogeneous nothing-nothing". Alternatively you might use "infinite nothing nothing". Time as we experience it is a perception of the reorganization of the universe. Time as we use it is a construct. It is only because the human brain can remember prior states of things that the time perception exists. The following is a quotation from chapter 6 (pages 36 and 37) of the book, The Universe and Dr. Einstein by Lincoln Barnett: “Along with absolute space, Einstein discarded the concept of absolute time - of a steady, unvarying, inexorable universal time flow, streaming from the infinite past to the infinite future. Much of the obscurity that has surrounded the Theory of Relativity stems from man’s reluctance to recognize that sense of time, like sense of color, is a form of perception. Just as there is no such thing as color without an eye to discern it, so an instant or hour or a day is nothing without an event to mark it. And just as space is simple a possible order of material objects, so time is simply a possible order of events.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeschylus Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 I am amused at the fact that many of the world's greatest scientists routinely use the term "space-time continuum" because it sounds like words from fools. Well small things please small minds. The term "spacetime continuum" refers to a mathematical construct, not some vague cod-philosophical concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAQ Posted October 5, 2004 Share Posted October 5, 2004 There is no such thing as totally empty space ---don't forget virtual particles . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mak10 Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 what are virtual particles?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAQ Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 ---- mak10 -----see <http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~imamura/209/apr14/virtual.html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAQ Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 mak10 And -- < http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Quantum/virtual_particles.html> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philbo1965uk Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 nonsense of course there is space were no matter or time exists and is truelly devoid of existance of anything.VIRTUAL PARTICLES my ass.stop thinking laterally,quantom physics is hogwash.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Tycho?] Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 nonsense of course there is space were no matter or time exists and is truelly devoid of existance of anything.VIRTUAL PARTICLES my ass.stop thinking laterally,quantom physics is hogwash.... Man, you have a post count of 10 now, is a single one of those posts not complete bullshit? If you are going to say quantum physics (one of the most successful and useful theories of the past 100 years) is hogwash, you had better ****ing back that up with something other than poor grammar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 No. If space-time is warped by a black hole then it is warped. It does not matter if there is other matter around to feel the effects (gravity) of that warp or not. You seem to be struggling with the old philosophical question "If a tree falls in the woods and there is nobody around to hear it' date=' does it make a sound?"[/quote'] I think you have a problem dealing with the old philosophical question. Let me ask you, how can there be space if nothing fills it? How can there be time if no event occur? Since space and time are linked then how can there be space time in an empty void? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorcerer Posted October 9, 2004 Share Posted October 9, 2004 Looking back again at a black hole by itself in empty space' date=' would the space around it be effected by having a higher potential for having those bits of matter pop out of empty space? It would seem intuitive that space compressed or warped by gravity would have a higher than zero energy stored in it.Just aman[/quote'] I always wondered this too, when space is warped around a gravitational feild it should be stretched, thinking of space as a physical entity, like a fabric, if it is stretched then less of the fabric covers a greater area. If the ammount of vaccum energy is proportional to the ammount of space-time fabric, then there should be a lower average energy around massive objects. Anyone care to tell me whats wrong with this? (I'm guessing the bit about space-time being a physical entity/fabric.... but Im always hearing this cliche.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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