Phi for All Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 While visiting Germany and marveling at the smoothness of the Autobahn, I was told it didn't have as much to do with maintenance as it did with letting the asphalt cure. When Germany lays down new asphalt, no one is allowed to drive on it for 3 months. The result is a road that remains smooth as glass and pothole-free for many years. In the US, they let cars drive on new asphalt the next day after it's laid down! This insures that the roads become uneven, potholed and in need of maintenance very quickly, usually within a couple of years. This means a lot of employment, but it also represents a huge waste of economic resources. It means people get to have their roads back fairly quickly, but it also means their cars are battered by potholes after only a year or so. Which system is better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 For who? The people making the money? or the people using it? It really depends! For the people making the tar and all that, the eneven system is better becase every few years, they are sure to make money. But, for the people using them, the autobahn system is better because it spares them the harassment. It all depends on who's point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Another factor is that the asphalt might be more expensive, which means that getting it right the first time and not having to do as much maintenance pays dividends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blike Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 In the US, they let cars drive on new asphalt the next day Actually, they let cars drive on the new asphault within an hour or so. In the city they can't just shut down roads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 In the city they can't just shut down roads.They do in Germany. Provisions are made, detours are set up, and the people are just used to it. The money they save in road budgets and vehicle repair makes it well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 In Michigan, they certainly need to do that. You drive from Indiana, and it's all smooth, then you see the "Welcome to Michigan" sign, and it's all bumpy. But it is hard to shut down the roads in a major city. People have no patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 They do in Germany. Provisions are made, detours are set up, and the people are just used to it. The money they save in road budgets and vehicle repair makes it well worth it. They do here (UK) as well, and it causes bloody chaos. It all depends on how much preparation is made and how long the roadworks are delayed for (they usually are). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 They do here (UK) as well, and it causes bloody chaos. It all depends on how much preparation is made and how long the roadworks are delayed for (they usually are).Do you feel the roads hold up better? After they repave & let it cure, is it several years before they have to repave again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Some of the time, yes. Most of the time, it hardly makes the slightest bit of difference whether they repave it or not, but I think you're right - the curing does help. I don't know about most of you, but there's a section on the M6 which keeps getting resurfaced every year and there just seems to be constant roadworks there (around junction 7). There's also bits on the M40 where they're resurfaced it with a very nice smooth piece of tarmac, but it's inconsistant and doesn't span all 3 lanes most of the time. There's a section on the M42 that is still concrete; which is a horrible surface to drive on, and that's been there for well over 10 years - they may not have even replaced it since the motorway was opened. Please bear in mind though that the UK traffic system is a complete shambles - we probably have more queues, ongoing roadworks and dissatisfied and quite frankly overtaxed road users in the country. And this probably doesn't contribute to the argument too much tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 I wanted some engineering input, actually, before I put this up as a new thread under politics. It seems more of a political topic, but there could be something about German road engineering that is different. I seem to remember that they have like seven layers of grading beneath the asphalt as well. Any German road engineers out there? Konnen Sie mir helfen, bitte? I know concrete is a lot more costly, but it also doesn't need to be replaced nearly as often. I believe it has other problems, like the temperature can't get too low while the concrete dries or ice causes it to fracture. It's smooth to drive on but tire traction in bad weather is not as good as asphalt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp6 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 Say if you were putting asphalt on a driveway, it'd be a good idea to let it cure, I.E not put any weight on it for awhile? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 Definitely, although it might be really inconvenient not being able to get into your garage. I don't think your driveway is going to get the kind of traffic that normal roads do that cause so much deterioration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 inconvenient That's the keyword here. All countries and all people can do it, but because it is inconvenient, they let the road be used and don't let it cure as soon as it has been finished. And yeah. the driveway isn't that much of a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 18, 2004 Author Share Posted June 18, 2004 All countries and all people can do it, but because it is inconvenient, they let the road be used and don't let it cure as soon as it has been finished.This is what I have the biggest problem with. Our need for convenience plays right into the hands of those who stand to profit most by having bad roads. We pay so much more than we need to. We all know that we are capable of doing it the right way, the smart and efficient way that will give us value for our taxes as well as Autobahn-like roads to drive on, but we get sold (out?) on convenience. Have any of you ever driven on the Autobahn and experienced true road engineering excellence? Makes my nipples hard just thinking about it! For the last six years, every time I see American road workers leaning on their shovels or swerve to miss a pothole or hear about how many millions my state is planning on spending on roads this year (our governor is a former road builder), I get so angry and frustrated. To me, this is the true definition of road rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aommaster Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 lol! I different meaning to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbp6 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 "I don't think your driveway is going to get the kind of traffic that normal roads do that cause so much deterioration." Great minds eh? Thats what I was thinking. Still though, it might be a good idea to give it a month or so, maybe more. If that would double or even triple the time you'd need to wait until you had to replace it you'd be saving all kinds of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 18, 2004 Share Posted June 18, 2004 I don't know about most of you, but there's a section on the M6 which keeps getting resurfaced every year and there just seems to be constant roadworks there (around junction 7). the M6 sux around those areas I`ll back you up on that! as for the curing, I don`t know what they did on a section of the M54 to A5 but there`s patches there are a dream to ride over! smooth as you like and yet textured finely so that winter`s not too much of a problem either, pity it`s just a tiny section though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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