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Irishka

Google Earth and live webcams

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I wish Google Earth would broadcast videos with live webcams, it would be so expansive today, i know, but still it is a matter of the nearest future. Imagine you can view anything live anywhere in the world. There is an privacy issue though that would be hard to solve. On the other hand crimes and illigal business would diminish:cool:

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I think DoD would have something to say about it, they already don't like the detailed information that is available.

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I'd hate to see this happen. If people want to see me, they can visit me in person.

 

Things that can be prevented by cameras are mostly harmless! The world is already a very safe place. (Why else would life expectancy go up everywhere?)

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I'd hate to see this happen. If people want to see me, they can visit me in person.

 

Things that can be prevented by cameras are mostly harmless! The world is already a very safe place. (Why else would life expectancy go up everywhere?)

 

Unfortunately a lot of people don't realize this. For most folks in industrialized countries the worst danger they ever face is climbing into their automobile and going down the road.

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Unfortunately a lot of people don't realize this. For most folks in industrialized countries the worst danger they ever face is climbing into their automobile and going down the road.

 

Cancer is going to be the #1 cause of death. But indeed, traffic and fastfood (or other bad food) also cause a lot of fatalities.

 

And I really doubt that criminals care about cameras. There exist soooo many places without cameras that they're still really easy to avoid. However, the privacy of people is affected much faster.

 

My bet is that while cameras are installed to prevent heavy crime (for example drugdealing) and violence, in stead most of the "crimes" that it will prevent is people crossing a red light on a deserted crossroad or other minor things.

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I've never understood the objection to cameras outside. People can see you with their eyes, so why does it matter if a camera sees you? Everywhere a camera can look, so can a person - without violating any of your rights. So why does the "camera" suddenly send everyone into some weird 1984 paranoia?

 

The only time I'd ever get worried or even remotely feel that my privacy is being invaded would be...well, when my privacy is being invaded. Cameras that see through walls into my house? Definitely a problem. Cameras that see me walk down the street? I don't see the problem.

 

I haven't heard a good argument yet for fear of cameras outside filming what's going on outside.

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I haven't heard a good argument yet for fear of cameras outside filming what's going on outside.

 

Cameras (practically everywhere) outside are pretty much equal to someone stalking you, which is considered a crime in many countries. Someone with access to the camera databases can find out where you live, work, shop etc.

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Cameras (practically everywhere) outside are pretty much equal to someone stalking you, which is considered a crime in many countries. Someone with access to the camera databases can find out where you live, work, shop etc.

 

Well, I'll concede it's a fair argument. But law enforcement can follow you around without probable cause and we don't get to use stalking laws to stop them. They obviously know where one lives, works and shops and a dozen other things that are reasonable to know.

 

I think for most of us it just seems scary because of the perfectly natural discomfort and anxiety from being watched. Particularly with 24/7 persistence, and wide coverage areas.

 

I, personally, enjoy the thought of cameras everywhere because that's when the american people will ALL have to deal with the laws they pass. When everyone gets nit-picked to death for every little illegal act, maybe then they'll start rethinking the knee jerk impulse to pass a law for every stupid thing they don't like (which is usually someone exercising their freedom in a way they don't morally agree with).

Edited by ParanoiA

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Well, I'll concede it's a fair argument. But law enforcement can follow you around without probable cause and we don't get to use stalking laws to stop them. They obviously know where one lives, works and shops and a dozen other things that are reasonable to know.

 

Either way the scenario presented here isn't just limited to law enforcement.

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My horror scenario starts the moment that Google earth, Picasa's face recognition and surveillance camera's are combined...

 

Just some examples of how things could be (has nothing to do with 1984):

  • Your boss can find out that you go out a lot really late, and really often. Despite the fact that you do your job well, your boss might conclude that you are irresponsible and you don't get a promotion.

  • Imagine all the English guys having to explain their girlfriends what they were doing in Amsterdam on their weekend trip? You can't hide anymore in areas where people go out. :D

  • Imagine Youtube videos of you - with your name attached to it so it can be "googled".

 

There are a lot of cameras in areas where people go out. But I don't think those will be linked to the internet soon. Much more likely that webcams will be in this scenario, and those are not all in areas where people go out, but more in random places.

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Well, if we're working off the assumption that everyone gets to view this stuff, then doesn't this also carry the potential to add parity to law enforcement? If we can all see that congressman "X" buys crack downtown, then doesn't that put pressure on law enforcement to prosecute? By eliminating the monopoly on this information, doesn't it make it harder to sweep corruption under the rug?

 

I'm sure we can all come up with scenarios on either side of the issue, negative and positive. Ultimately though, I'll bet we evolve and adapt to consistent surveillance.

 

At the end of the day, nothing can really stop me from mounting a camera on my car, my house, anything of mine and then transmit the images over the net - and then encourage everyone else to do the same. There's no violation of rights or privacy and no central control, rather just a collective.

 

We're going to have to deal with it, or we're going to have to dramatically trample individual rights by restricting the use of cameras by citizens.

 

That's why I rest on the principle that outside is not private. You just don't have a right to tell me I can't film you outdoors. And restricting transmission is just as perilous and creates the excuse to police the internet - and then, of course, the intolerant morality police censor it.

 

Freedom has a price. Are we no longer willing to pay it?

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My bet is that while cameras are installed to prevent heavy crime (for example drugdealing) and violence, in stead most of the "crimes" that it will prevent is people crossing a red light on a deserted crossroad or other minor things.

 

If you don't think people should be penalized for those things, then the problem isn't that you're more likely to be caught, the problem is the law itself.

 

Basically, I agree 100% with ParanoiA on this one. There's nothing fundamentally different about being seen in public by a camera or by human eyes. The age of ultra-transparency is looking more and more inevitable, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

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Well, if we're working off the assumption that everyone gets to view this stuff, then doesn't this also carry the potential to add parity to law enforcement? If we can all see that congressman "X" buys crack downtown, then doesn't that put pressure on law enforcement to prosecute? By eliminating the monopoly on this information, doesn't it make it harder to sweep corruption under the rug?

 

If the world would be more full of cameras, and they'd record, and they'd be able to recognize (automatically) who is on the movie, and what he's doing - then before you know 50% of the youngsters are in jail.

 

In a completely transparent world, either one of the following things must happen:

1. people really change (for the 1st time in history) and everybody becomes truly good.

2. people don't change and prisons become the worlds best investment

3. punishments must become much lower because so many more people are caught - many minor things must become tolerated - like: crossing a red light is a fine of 0.10 euro - but you are caught for it 10 times / day (that's my average as a student when I went everywhere by bike, possibly more)... meaning you pay a daily fine of 1 euro for crossing red lights. In our current system, I'd have lost my drivers license and I'd be in prison for all the minor traffic laws I broke... but I never endangered myself or other people...

 

At the end of the day, nothing can really stop me from mounting a camera on my car, my house, anything of mine and then transmit the images over the net - and then encourage everyone else to do the same. There's no violation of rights or privacy and no central control, rather just a collective.

We're not discussing whether this whole camera / internet thing is illegal at this moment. It is allowed in most cases. We're discussing whether it should become illegal in the future. I am just trying to say that you don't have to accept all technology just like that. Sometimes we don't have to use it, or even have to make it illegal.

 

Can everyone who has never done something stupid in public please raise their hands? My estimation is that it's gonna be quiet. Perfect people don't exist, but internet has a near perfect memory.

 

I wish Google Earth would broadcast videos with live webcams, it would be so expansive today, i know, but still it is a matter of the nearest future. Imagine you can view anything live anywhere in the world. There is an privacy issue though that would be hard to solve. On the other hand crimes and illigal business would diminish:cool:

 

Illegal business doesn't diminish because cameras are linked. No matter how many cameras you place, you can always find or even create/build a space that is not filmed... and in that space people will do illegal things.

 

There's nothing fundamentally different about being seen in public by a camera or by human eyes.

Camera pictures can be stored with all the details, and data can be stored forever, while human eyes will only store important parts needed for a memory and will forget again if it was not so important.

Camera pictures can be digitally searched for faces. Cameras don't get tired. They're not the same, because they don't have the same possibilities.

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If the world would be more full of cameras' date=' and they'd record, and they'd be able to recognize (automatically) who is on the movie, and what he's doing - then before you know 50% of the youngsters are in jail.

 

In a completely transparent world, either one of the following things must happen:

1. people really change (for the 1st time in history) and everybody becomes truly good.

2. people don't change and prisons become the worlds best investment

3. punishments must become much lower because so many more people are caught - many minor things must become tolerated - like: crossing a red light is a fine of 0.10 euro - but you are caught for it 10 times / day (that's my average as a student when I went everywhere by bike, possibly more)... meaning you pay a daily fine of 1 euro for crossing red lights. In our current system, I'd have lost my drivers license and I'd be in prison for all the minor traffic laws I broke... but I never endangered myself or other people... [/quote']

 

You're making my argument for me. Like Sisyphus said, you're problem here appears to be the laws themselves because you're essentially complaining that a world full of cameras would now keep you from getting away with all of these "little" transgressions. Well, stop making so many stupid laws and start being more tolerant if you don't like being legally picked to death. This is the part I enjoy. People bitching because they can't get away with breaking the law anymore. In a world like that, I'll bet we'll be more cautious about passing "intolerance" laws.

 

We're not discussing whether this whole camera / internet thing is illegal at this moment. It is allowed in most cases. We're discussing whether it should become illegal in the future. I am just trying to say that you don't have to accept all technology just like that. Sometimes we don't have to use it, or even have to make it illegal.

 

My argument is not that "it's legal today". Read my statement again, carefully....I was demonstrating that to make it "illegal" would require you to write legislation that says I can *not* mount a camera on my property. It also would require you to to write legislation that regulates what information I share on the internet - freedom of speech.

 

My statement points out the fundamental flaw of discussing its legality, since you would have to dramatically trample our rights in order to make such a thing illegal in the first place. You would have to strip freedom of speech, yet somehow give the press a pass with their cameras (which introduces a nasty potential for a consolidated information and news source which is exactly what you need to oppress and control your citizenry, see North Korea). And I haven't even tried to open the can of worms inherent in trashing our civil liberties to the extent of regulating electronic gizmos on my own property. Insane.

 

Can everyone who has never done something stupid in public please raise their hands? My estimation is that it's gonna be quiet. Perfect people don't exist, but internet has a near perfect memory.

 

 

Yes the internet has near perfect memory, and you did just make the claim that all of us have done something stupid in public, so what are you worried about? Anyone who exploits you has something to be exploited about themselves, according to your statement, so again, what's the problem?

 

Almost seems like this could actually civilize us. Maybe humans will stop pretending they're anonymous and start treating strangers fairly. Maybe our empathy will evolve another step.

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I wish Google Earth would broadcast videos with live webcams, it would be so expansive today, i know, but still it is a matter of the nearest future. Imagine you can view anything live anywhere in the world. There is an privacy issue though that would be hard to solve. On the other hand crimes and illigal business would diminish:cool:

 

No live camera's yet, but they do have street level view in some places. I wonder if eventually they'll have it everywhere on google earth.

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What do you think all of those satellites do up there? They already film you everywhere you go!! The problem is that you don't know that and think your privacy is secured :D I'd love Google Earth to start live broadcasts, i'd feel more protected and secure this way, add a night vision too, i'd be even more happy, plus a recording feature, i'd pay $1000 a month for all of these features!! I can say its for sure the criminals would think twice before they steal my car!

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