Xittenn Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I've been looking into the chemistry of known treatments for scarred tissue. I'm particularly interested in Alpha Hydroxy Acids (Glycolic Acid), Beta Hydroxy Acids, Hyaluronic Acid, Retinol, any and all vitamins and Collagen. This is a diverse list and yet they are the main focus, as to my understanding, of substances used to treat scarred tissue. I'm looking into the mechanism which guide the use of these substances in treatment. For example, Glycolic Acid is used as both a general exfoliant and also a deep tissue skin peel. It is known to have the properties of softening skin and also reducing wrinkles. The means by which this is accomplished is through the breaking of lipid bonds and skin cells. This would seem to be a good means of reworking scar tissue and yet it is generally accepted as being not. Why is this? Is it because scar tissue has a higher concentration of TIII-Collagen and therefore a lower concentration of lipids? It is also to my understanding that a combination of AHAs, BHAs and Retinol seems to prove effective and yet a tolerance to a combination thereof will quickly develop. Why is this? I know this is a very general topic of discussion but I hope to have some good general responses with regards to the chemical mechanisms. Thx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucaspa Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 Scar tissue is a specific type of tissue. Skin is composed of 2 basic layers: dermis underlying the epidermis. Dermis is composed of fibroblasts but has an organized matrix outside these cells while epidermis is composed of epidermal cells, hair follicles, and sweat glands. Scar tissue is a very disorganized tissue but does not have epidermis over it. There are no hair follicles or sweat glands. The extracellular matrix is mostly type I collagen. All the "treatments" for scar tissue seem to be trying to get the tissue to "soften" a bit and be more pliable. None of them will cause the epidermis to regrow, so none of them are going to restore the skin to its normal appearance. Sorry. On normal skin, glycolic acid would remove the dead epidermal cells that lay on the surface of the skin -- that strata cornelium. This will expose the underlying living epidermal cells (probably also taking off the top 2 or 3 cells in that layer), leaving a "softer" skin until the epidermis naturally reconstructs the overlying layer of dead cells. I can't see it doing anything really for scar tissue except perhaps using acid to break down some of the collagen on the surface. I've seen papers exploring the use of hyaluronic acid to prevent scarring during wound healing, but none on using HA on existing scars. I can't envision any possible mechanism for it. What do you mean by "prove effective"? What do you hope to gain by treating the scar? Get it to go away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xittenn Posted September 2, 2008 Author Share Posted September 2, 2008 Yeah.................................It seems so odd to me in an era where we boast our technological and medical feets we can't do something as simple as reconstruct an overlaying tissue on the external portions of the human body! I haven't actually done a study on skin dermis/epedermis/scars............ as of yet. Most of my understanding of the scarring process comes from hearsay. I am planning on diving in after I finish my current study on physical chemistry. I do have some familiarity with cosmetic creams and products which claim to be effective, all of which attempt to use one of the above chemicals to produce an effect. I have as most found no product that works although Glycolic Acid seems to be good at reducing acne scars.............. You've verified something I had assumed being that scarr tissue was mostly comprised of collagen; I had heared type III. It would be nice to hear some theoretical opinions on what a future method of reconstruction may be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 It would be nice to hear some theoretical opinions on what a future method of reconstruction may be! this isn`t exactly theoretical and it`s also Current technology, but Laser scar removal/resurfacing has proven to be quite effective with some scar types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xittenn Posted September 3, 2008 Author Share Posted September 3, 2008 I'm actually thinking of having laser done as a deep skin peel as opposed to chemical. Sucks for hair removal..........................I'm strawberry blonde. Any tissue engineering type stuff going on for dermis reconstruction...................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xittenn Posted September 6, 2008 Author Share Posted September 6, 2008 sphingosine kinase................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucaspa Posted September 6, 2008 Share Posted September 6, 2008 Any tissue engineering type stuff going on for dermis reconstruction...................... Quite a bit. But I think you mean epidermis. The problem is getting the hair follicles and sweat glands back. There are a couple of companies making constructs with fibroblasts covered with epidermal cells -- especially for severe burn cases -- but the epidermis doesn't make hair follicles or sweat glands. One group has discovered a stem cell for hair follicles, but I don't think the research has progressed very far clinically. The articles about inhibiting sphinosine kinase are for glial scars -- which occur in the brain. And this is about stopping sphingosine kinase, not applying it. I did find a patent that talks about inhibiting phosphokinase C as a treatment for scar tissue: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6306383/description.html This is claimed to treat hypertrophic scars, not get rid of normal scars. Lots of claims, not much data. Which is typical of patents. We'll just have to wait and see as this idea moves thru animal trials to human clinical trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xittenn Posted September 7, 2008 Author Share Posted September 7, 2008 (edited) I for one am not so concerned about the reintroduction of sweat glands and hair follicles although this would be nice. Returning the epidermal layer to it's normal texture and consistency and removing that waxy shiny look is more my focus of study. The reason I mentioned sphingosine kinase was it is to my understanding that it has some link to fibroblast activity. I thought this maybe used to redevelop the dermis layer of 3rd degree burns etc. This being assumed to be one of the significant contributing factors to the lack of healing of the epidermis. I hope I make some sense................I'm still learning! I have just reread the article on sphk 1 and it was actually saying exactly what you're saying................... Edited September 7, 2008 by buttacup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucaspa Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 I for one am not so concerned about the reintroduction of sweat glands and hair follicles although this would be nice. Returning the epidermal layer to it's normal texture and consistency and removing that waxy shiny look is more my focus of study. A major part of what breaks up the skin so you don't have that shiny look are the hair follicles and sweat glands They give texture to the epidermal layer. The reason I mentioned sphingosine kinase was it is to my understanding that it has some link to fibroblast activity. I thought this maybe used to redevelop the dermis layer of 3rd degree burns etc. There are lots of types of "fibroblasts". "Fibroblast" is a catch-all term for cells in connective tissue. The cells in tendons and ligaments are also "fibroblasts", yet those tissues are very different from dermis. There are fibroblasts in scar, too, but that is different yet from tendon, ligament, or dermis. So the use of one term to describe what are very different cells has probably held up progress. A dermal fibroblast is a specialized cell type, just like a tendon fibroblast is a different specialized cell type. So what sphingosine kinase does on dermal fibroblasts wouldn't necessarily be the same thing it would do to scar fibroblasts. This being assumed to be one of the significant contributing factors to the lack of healing of the epidermis. Some people have thought that a normal dermis = normal epidermis. Yet that isn't always true. When you have a narrow cut on your skin -- say from a knife, the dermis still heals with scar but the epidermal layer is normal. At some point, the area of the wound is just too large for the epidermal cells around the edges to proliferate and cover that area. I have just reread the article on sphk 1 and it was actually saying exactly what you're saying................... That's why they pay me the big bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xittenn Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Can you recommend any literature in any of the following subjects.... -protein kinetics -enzymes as related to life sciences -dermis/epidermis/scar tissue -collagen -protein/enzyme synthesis -crystallography/nmr there are many on all of the above but choosing the best is usually key to a better understanding........................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xittenn Posted March 7, 2009 Author Share Posted March 7, 2009 (edited) So like I've moved on up the ladder to a face cream with Peptide-8, it's doing wonders for my fine lines and wrinkles. It hasn't however put a dent in my deep tissue scar........I know rule number one never uses oneself as the Guinea Pig. I would eventually like to move up to a cream with Palmitoyl Oligopeptides. I do believe I've read that Palmitoyl Oligopeptides are naturally occuring in the body and that they aid in the production of collagen but I'm having a hard time finding the information. It is the stimulation of the production of collagen that is assumed here to be the beneficial treatment; but again fine lines and wrinkles. One would think that if it can reduce fine lines and wrinkles it would aid in the repairing of scar tissue.............. Regardless I'm really anxious to get this book I ordered Tissue, Cell and Organ Engineering by Challa S. S. R. Kumar. I hope to find lots of relevant information on the medical and engineering science of skin growth and repair and many more of my questions with regards to this/these disciplines! Has anyone read the book? How was it? Edited March 7, 2009 by buttacup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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