nitric Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 This a question about legitimacy of americium in smoke detectors: can i take out the button of Am-241 out and say dissolve it in nitric acid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosch45 Posted August 18, 2008 Share Posted August 18, 2008 search "radioactive boyscout" in google Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 The Am-241 in smoke detectors is in the form of AmO2 and not the pure element. In addition, each detector contains about 0.2 micrograms or LESS of the Americium oxide. Basically, there isn't enough of the Am in there for you to even see. (The tiny button inside is a metal substrate that the mixture of filler and AmO2 is adhered to). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I'm not a lawyer but I think that the answer to the OP's question is yes, but not legally. The Am in those detectors is only exempted from the license system because it is part of an "exempted product" . If you take it out of the smoke detector you are breaking the law. Also, it's not nice stuff to play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermanntrude Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I'm not a lawyer but I think that the answer to the OP's question is yes, but not legally. The Am in those detectors is only exempted from the license system because it is part of an "exempted product" . If you take it out of the smoke detector you are breaking the law.Also, it's not nice stuff to play with. It's not nice to play with in any country but which ones have that law? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 It's not nice to play with in any country but which ones have that law? Just a guess: all countries that are in the International Atomic Energy Agency? - That's almost all countries in the world (pretty much all countries that are in the UN). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 a much nicer source of Alpha particles is Uranyl Nitrate, it gives nearly pure Alpha only, it`s much easier to handle as it`s less "hot", and it`s readily available at specialist photography shops as well as being Legal to own. I`m fairly sure that depleted Uranium works as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 It's not nice to play with in any country but which ones have that law? The good old US of A - the land of the free. (I think I'm allowed to do it here in the UK but I'm not sure). IIRC the OP is based in a state where owning lab glassware is restricted anyway, so the local laws on radioactive materials are likely to be strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted August 27, 2008 Share Posted August 27, 2008 I know that the NRC indicates that small quantities of certain radioactive material are legal to possess, but I'm not sure what the exact amounts are. I'm pretty certain that ANY amount of a fissile material is illegal to own, but I haven't been able to find any specifics. I'm pretty sure that the processing of any ore, or any other chemical purification of nuclear material is illegal. (E.G. if you have your Uranyl Nitrate and try to make pure Uranium out of it, you'd be breaking the law). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I know that the NRC indicates that small quantities of certain radioactive material are legal to possess, but I'm not sure what the exact amounts are. I'm pretty certain that ANY amount of a fissile material is illegal to own, but I haven't been able to find any specifics. I'm pretty sure that the processing of any ore, or any other chemical purification of nuclear material is illegal. (E.G. if you have your Uranyl Nitrate and try to make pure Uranium out of it, you'd be breaking the law). The Americium in smoke detectors is a fissile material and I'm pretty sure it's legal to own one. I wonder if the lawyers have written some law that forbids making an atom bomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 The Americium in smoke detectors is a fissile material and I'm pretty sure it's legal to own one.I wonder if the lawyers have written some law that forbids making an atom bomb. Yes and no. "Fissile", as definied by the NRC, is: "Fissile material means the radionuclides uranium-233, uranium-235, plutonium-239, and plutonium-241, or any combination of these radionuclides. Fissile material means the fissile nuclides themselves, not material containing fissile nuclides. Unirradiated natural uranium and depleted uranium and natural uranium or depleted uranium, that has been irradiated in thermal reactors only, are not included in this definition. Certain exclusions from fissile material controls are provided in §71.15." So in that sense Am-241 is not considered a fissile material by their definition. I've actually found a part in CFR 10 that answers some of my questions, some of which to my surprise. There are exemptions which allow an individual to own "fissile material"! 10 CFR 71.15 states: "(a) Individual package containing 2 grams or less fissile material." So I guess if you have less than 2 grams of the fissile material, it's legal to posses it. (Though if the activity of said material is above a certain amount then you would be in violation of other parts of CFR 10). In addition, because the Am-241 is AmO2, that makes it "non-fissile". So when one of those listed nuclides is present in the form of a compound and not the pure metal, it's not considered a fissile material. Agan, it doesn't mean that it can't go critical, but it basically can't go critical in an explosion as it is too diluted. Also, having a large amount would put you in violation of other parts of the CFR. Section 71.12 also states that the government can, upon a request from an interested person and determination that the individual will not pose any health, property, or security harm, grant them an exemption to own any fissile material they want. So if you were to submit an application asking if you could possess a fissile material, as long as they deem that you are not endangering anything or anyone, they'll let you own it. It's really pretty interesting reading through the CFR 10. The gist of it is that you can own radioactive material as long as it is not above a certain level of activity, and that you don't try to concentrate the material. (Though I think if you concentrate a radioactive material and it is still kept below the allowable activity level, you're okay. It's just that the allowed activity levels are pretty low so if you did concentrate something it would put your sample above that activity). There aren't any laws out there stating "You can't make an atom bomb". But there are so many other laws and regulations that you'd be severely breaking if you even tried. There's more punishment potential for the thousands of other laws and they're pretty easy to convict people on. Finally, many of these laws and regulations don't stop you from owning the material, but they do stop you from selling it or shipping it. Therefore, if you bought some plutonium or pure neptunium/americium, the person who sold it to you and shipped it to you would be in SERIOUS trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosch45 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Hey really quick, and sorry to you UK guys, but lets not forget about United Nuclear. They sell highly radioactive substances all over the US; they even do contracts for the US government, a really cool company if you poke around their site. http://www.unitednuclear.com/uranium.htm http://www.unitednuclear.com/isotopes.htm and if you will just go to their main page, you can see that they have a variety of neuclear kits available for purchase as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Well, I wouldn't call it highly radioactive as uranium and thorium metal are, initially to me at least, not "highly radioactive". Some simple lead storage containers (Their lead pigs are AWESOME containers) stop the radiation. The half life for those metals is so long that you're not likely to get remotely injured from the stuff unless you sleep with it, attach it to your nards, or ingest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPanic Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Hey really quick, and sorry to you UK guys, but lets not forget about United Nuclear. Why sorry to the UK guys? Is there something going on there? Or is your world no bigger than North America + UK? On topic again: we're discussing where one can get radioactive material... but we aren't discussing why one would be searching for it? I can only come up with two peaceful applications myself (I'm no nuclear expert): medical isotopes for cancer treatments (but hospitals have their sources of this stuff, they won't be asking how to obtain that on this forum) and smoke detectors (apparently someone was considering to take them apart, so that means it's not the application we're searching for either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 there`s cloud chambers, Photography (radiographs and Uranotypes), Equipment calibration, Element collectors etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frosch45 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Why sorry to the UK guys? Is there something going on there? Or is your world no bigger than North America + UK? I was just saying that United Nuclear doesn't supply to the UK.... I know that there are other sources, its just that that one is quite convinent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 I wonder if the lawyers have written some law that forbids making an atom bomb. Surprisingly enough at least the use of such devices is covered quite extensively. There's actually a special mention about detonating nuclear devices in the Antarctic, at least in Finnish law. So if someone is tired of waiting for the icecaps to melt you can't hasten the process with nuclear weapons without breaking the law, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imp Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 IIRC the OP is based in a state where owning lab glassware is restricted anyway, so the local laws on radioactive materials are likely to be strict. Pray tell, how in the world did you come to be aware of the Great State of Texas' concern for use of laboratory untensils? imp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted September 3, 2008 Share Posted September 3, 2008 I think I read it somewhere on the net as an example of how the "land of the free" is a bit of an irony. You can buy a gun but not a three necked flask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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