Spelling and grammar

[D H]

I thought the serial comma was optional.

Since we are not allowed to discuss religious issues on this forum it is probably best to avoid discussion of the serial comma.

 

I gather Skeptic was not talking about the serial comma but the comma between "this" and "that" in in "this, that, and the other thing".

[DJBruce]

If a post is completely incomprehensible then I become irritated and do not view the post to be worth the time to understand. Although, occasional spelling and grammar errors are fine. I do recommend though that people use Google Grammar and Spelling check it works great.

[Pangloss]

From what I've read, fonts with serifs aren't good choices for web sites because computer monitors don't have the same resolution as decent print media, and so the serifs end up being nasty.

 

I can put up an alternative theme with a serif font. Is there a font face you prefer?

 

For what it's worth, this is at least a semi-serif font. Note the serifs on the capital "I".

[D H]

Many sans serif fonts put serifs on the "I" and on "1" because without them "1", "I", and "l" are completely indistinguishable. It's still a sans serif font.

[Dak]

Many sans serif fonts put serifs on the "I" and on "1" because without them "1", "I", and "l" are completely indistinguishable. It's still a sans serif font.

 

mine doesn't...

 

I can tell that the first one's a '1', but the other two look the same.

[Klaynos]

mine doesn't...

 

I can tell that the first one's a '1', but the other two look the same.

 

Agreed.

[JohnB]

That said, every time I criticize someone's bad spellin or grammer in a post, someone else points to a grammatical error in my critique or in some other post of mine. I have learned to keep my mouth in said regard.

Too good to pass up. You left the "g" off "spelling" and "grammar" is spelt with an "a". I realise this was a set up but unlike you, I have yet to learn.

Honestly I really don't care about spelling & grammar, I think we should keep our language as simple as possible, which means we should be more tolerant of small deviations, as long as we can understand. A language is just a tool to express ideas, we should only enforce rules if they really help us achieve that goal.

How do we define "small deviations"? The whole point of correct spelling and grammar is to clarify meaning.

 

The sentence itself is supposed to be no longer than can be said in one breath. This separates the flow of concepts into discrete (and understandable) segments. The correct use of puncuation allows the reader to understand which noun an adjective or verb is referring to.

 

Ignore these things and we find we can no longer express our ideas clearly to another and isn't that the point of communication?

[ParanoiA]

Also note that it is inappropriate to leave out a --^ comma separating independent items in a list of three or more items.

 

Depends. The standard British form is to leave out the comma before the 'and' whereas the standard American form includes the comma.

 

I disagree. Capitalization is much more important than are periods as far as recognition and understanding are concerned. Those leading capitals scream "A sentence starts here". That little period is a nice addition.

 

Yeah, I totally agree your posts on this. I choose to assume that posts with poor spelling and punctuation are by folks that don't use English as their primary language, until proven otherwise. Text speak, though, is disgusting and immediately results in a loss of credibility. (Even though they very well could be a revolutionary genius...I'll take the chance)

[D H]

I choose to assume that posts with poor spelling and punctuation are by folks that don't use English as their primary language, until proven otherwise.

From what I have seen, posts with egregious spelling and grammar errors are almost inevitably made by those who purportedly use English as their primary language. That people for whom English is a second language can write better than native speakers of the language is a bit telling.

 

Non-native speakers of English exhibit a non-English thought pattern in their writing. It is usually the sentence structure rather than grammar that serves as a better indicator that I am reading a post by a non-native speaker. This puts the burden on me to explain things a bit more carefully than normal and to curtail my use of idioms and the vernacular.

 

Crackpots are breed by themselves. Their thought patterns are bizarre regardless of the language they speak natively.

 

Text speak is rude, off-putting, and written by native speakers. The writer is essentially telling me that his time is much more valuable than mine. In short the author is an arrogant git.

[Islenya]

"If I WEREN'T so modest, I'd be perfect."

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

You mean "If I were to understand the subjunctive, I'd be perfect"?

[lawsinium]

I know what you are thinking, but I deliberately overreacted to get your attention. It is my intention to use forewarn instead of foreword, to caution you that this article has been edited in passing, the “elements of style” have never been implemented and the rules of grammar have been edited lightly using only my computer’s word processor. Henceforth, before you continue, I am giving you a heads-up ahead of time about the flaws that my papers might have. Please note, however, that the bible, the literary works of Shakespeare and other well-known publications have been praised for centuries by millions of readers all over the world, though they were written without following the rigorous rules of grammar. Like them, this article (which is an excerpt from the book entitled Creation by Law) is intended to survive the test of time.

 

The rules of grammar are so subjective and arbitrary, that most of them come with exceptions. In the face of logic these exceptions tell me not to treat grammar as an exact science. In science, exceptions are tantamount to standing on shaky ground. A scientific law cannot be a law, a theory cannot be accepted as a theory, unless it is backed up with facts and is proven by a controlled experiment to hold true without exceptions. Creating a rule and then contradicting said rule is like having no rule at all. A good example is the rule of adding “s” to form the plural of most nouns - eraser becomes erasers, clock becomes clocks. When the nouns end in s, sh, ch and x, however, you need to add es - march becomes marches, fish becomes fishes. Moreover, this rule gets more complicated when nouns end in o; the plural for video is videos, while for hero it is heroes. And to make matters worse, the plural of mouse is mice, but for house it is not hice; for goose it is geese but for moose it is not meese. Would it be so difficult to make a simple rule that says, when a noun is singular, take it at is, but when the noun is plural then add s to it - so change march to marchs, fish to fishs, hero to heros, mouse to mouses, goose to gooses, moose to mooses and house to houses. Life would be simpler and grammar would be more enjoyable!

 

Spelling is another interesting subject that needs a closer look for change. A simple chain email found its way into my inbox and the context was weird but intriguing yet still allowed a reader to understand the paragraph. This might be strange but worth sharing. Fi yuo cna raed teh praagaprh bleow, yuo hvae a graet mnid too.

 

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I wsa rdanieg. Teh phonmneal pweor of teh hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch ta Cmabrigde Uinsrevity, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr teh ltteres in a wrod aer, teh olny iproamtnt tinhg is tath hte frsit and lsat ltteer be in teh rghit pclae. Teh rset anc be a taotl mses adn yuo cna sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae teh hmuan mnid deos nto raed ervey lteter by istlef, btu the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? Yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling wsa ipmorantt!

Furthermore, kids nowadays have created their own sets of language, which they use in text messaging and online room chatting. This kind of communication system is accepted all over the world through Internet and cell phone connectivity. Luk @ d samplx blw:

 

Lyf ìs trüly wyze: it mde sadnez so we'd kno joy, paìn so we'd hav pleazur, war so we'd seek piz, hte so we cn 143 & PM so we cn fce a nue day. 10x. omg. lolz. cya l8r.

 

Translation: Life is truly wise: it made sadness so we would know joy, pain so we would have pleasure, war so we would seek peace, hate so we can love and night so we can face a new day. Thank you. Oh my gosh. Laughing out loud. See you later.

 

BTW, (by the way) I did some experiments to some copy editors, grammar teachers, doctors in literature, English students who edited the same sample pages of my manuscript. Incredibly, no one among them has ever exactly pin pointed the same grammatical error/s in all of my sample pages. In conclusion, I think the moral lesson here is: " if you understand what you read, that is fairrrrr enough".

 

Forewarn

 

“It is politics and religion that destroy an innocent child;

it is technology that destroys an innocent world.”

Edited July 13, 2008 by lawsinium

[mrsemmapeel]

Poor grammar doesn't bother me as much as poor spelling. I've just read a question on the medical part of this forum, where every other word seems to have a spelling mistake, this person says they work on computers all day long, so why not use a spell checker if you cannot spell? I think it's just laziness, (unless the person isn't English speaking or maybe dyslexic), my 10 year old can spell better. Also I am definitely more inclined not to reply to, or even read the entire post when the spelling is so terrible. I'm not a snob about this kind of thing, I was just always taught that it was important, especially when applying for jobs and writing essays.

[blazarwolf]

I only read the first post... I reply as such. I have terrible spelling and grammer, I can barely define those words. Ive had problems with language since I was very young. For along time due to the educational system (I even went to an optional school!) I was considerd by my peers, teachers, and parents to be not of particular intellegence. I wish I didnt have these problems, as to they have inhibited my fruitfullness in what I would call a normal life. But it was the wierdist thing.... when I went into middle school, I was isolated from my few friends (they were all in the smart-kid classes). Things became clear (as to real science classes being introduced) real clear. So clear I had problems being full of myself for a while after that... I guess I was lucky becuase I had this to realize how everyone is different. This sounds real bad, but its good.... Blacks may statistcally have 8 less I.Q. points then caucasions, but there certinally skilled at getting *****... To darwin this would be the most important form of intellegence

[mrsemmapeel]

Being able to spell doesn't mean you are of higher intelligence and because I could spell I would never look down upon friends who didn't spell very well, in fact my mother regularly spelt things wrongly but I wouldn't pick her up on it, it's just something she's not good at. My point is that, when working on a computer why wouldn't people want to use the option of spell check? Surely by using this they would be able to learn something?? I don't know maybe I'm just too picky:doh:

[blazarwolf]

Well I even had a bit of education in computers... And honestly I wouldent know how to spell check here other than cut/paste into another program... I cant even remember what I need to type into the runbox to keep this hunk-of-junk working, none the less dos commands.

[Klaynos]

Firefox has a spellchecker built in... I'd assume every other browser does too...

 

Infact I think every program I use these days including IRC and IM's all spell check everything I write...

[iNow]

Internet Exploder doesn't have a built-in spell checker...

[blazarwolf]

I use opera, I looked through my tabs I didnt see it. Im sure someone has made a plugin though... I thought it might be one of these buttons (up top) in this text-box... Maybe someone that does alot of word processing knows what they all are.... At first i figured there would an info box if I kept the mouse on one... but how stupid.. nothing.