Iron(III) chloride and thermite

[brusedmelonhead]

I was wondering if iron(III) chloride will substitute the iron oxide used in thermite, if so could i produce it with sodium hypochlorite bleach?I have aluminium powder already so it wont be a problem. My idea here is to oxidise a package of steel wool with bleach, allow the iron(III) chloride to precipitate drain off the excess bleach, and rinse the precipitate a few times.

[YT2095]

there`s no reason at all why Chlorine can`t be used instead of Oxygen in the molecule for a thermit type redox reaction, although it does present dangers that you wouldn`t encounter with using the Oxide, it`ll be Very moisture sensitive for a start and could react without warning!

 

I don`t think much of your method for Making FeCl3 though, it looks like it`s not a bad way to make Rust though

[Gilded]

I agree with YT on the sensitivity, I'm pretty sure even sweat from your hands can set it off. You shouldn't bother making FeCl3 though unless you really want to, as you can get it from electronics stores (used for circuit board etching), IIRC it isn't too expensive.

[hermanntrude]

I agree with YT on the sensitivity, I'm pretty sure even sweat from your hands can set it off. You shouldn't bother making FeCl3 though unless you really want to, as you can get it from electronics stores (used for circuit board etching), IIRC it isn't too expensive.

 

the stuff in electronics stores is in solution. Probably not what you want for a moisture sensitive experiment...

[YT2095]

although as a Test, by all means add a little strip of alu foil to this soln.

note the temp before and after, also do it in a sink or outdoors on some newspaper, FeCl3 stains quite bady.

[brusedmelonhead]

Thaks, after some wiki reseach and a balancing equation i can see it would ony produce rust, but thats fine. im going to do some welding on my dumbells i seam to have outgrown my old ones and i dont want to buy a new pair.

[hermanntrude]

Be extremely careful with thermite-type reactions. It's a reaction hotter than almost any other you can do, and can very easily run out of control, setting fire or melting things you didn't know could catch fire or melt. If you put sand under the reaction it'll be turned into glass, for instance...

[Gilded]

the stuff in electronics stores is in solution. Probably not what you want for a moisture sensitive experiment...

 

Some stores also sell pellets of solid FeCl3. I still have a 500g bag I once bought.

[Mr Skeptic]

Thaks, after some wiki reseach and a balancing equation i can see it would ony produce rust, but thats fine. im going to do some welding on my dumbells i seam to have outgrown my old ones and i dont want to buy a new pair.

 

Did you know that thermite is dangerous? Usually, when people do thermite experiments, they stand well back.

 

Oh, and do you have a welder's mask? IIRC, thermite glows ultraviolet and can harm your eyes. My gym teacher nearly lost his eyesight because he tried to weld without one. He got better after about a month though.

[brusedmelonhead]

I appreciate you concern but i am competent with such things. I truly put safty first. I do have a welding mask and a safe ignition process.

I have another question. Will a high frequency, high wattage arc ignite thermite easily?

[Mr Skeptic]

You could ignite it electrically. An arc welder would probably ignite it if that is what you are asking. More about thermite:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite says thermite needs to be at/near white hot to ignite, and ignition is difficult and unpredictable.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7231843493488769585 Using thermite to destroy things like cars. Note how some bits of thermite fly everywhere.

http://how2dostuff.blogspot.com/2006/01/how-to-make-thermite.html

[Ozone]

Fe3+ is the key but, normal FeCl3 solid is a complex hexahydrate. This would require the removal of much latent heat before you could think of getting it to go. Even the hydrate is deliquescent, if left open, it becomes soup.

 

Unfortunately, the anhydrous form is more difficult to handle. It is very very hygroscopic and hydolyzes quite a bit when in moist air to yield the hexahydrate and HCl (it "smokes").

 

Best of luck though, it's a tougher nut to crack than it appears.

 

Cheers,

 

O3

[pHzero]

I tried this a couple of days ago, since I have plenty of ferric chloride which i use to etch pcbs. It kinda worked, but the reaction want anywhere near as violent as with real thermite. It got hot enough to melt the aluminium, but there were no flames and it needed to be stirred to keep the reaction going.... But, its quite an easy reaction to start. Unlike iron oxide, ferric chloride melts at 34 degrees, the same as chocolate. So that means it'll melt if you hold it in your hand (although i dont recommend it). I might be able to use this to my advantage though: Perhaps if I took normal thermite and added a little bit of ferric chloride, it'd make easier to ignite thermite? It'd ignite if you left it outside on a hot day or if you aimed a hairdryer at it. The ferric chloride would melt and react a little bit with the aluminium, which will make heat and melt more ferric chloride and eventually there should be enough heat to melt the aluminium or the iron oxide?