UFO Gravity Propulsion Theory / ???

[jgjenson]

Please read the last two paragraphs first. Comments are appreciated.

 

Many different shapes and sizes of UFO craft have been reported, and many alien beings of different appearance, color, stature, etc…have been reported. This suggests that some of them arrived here from other planets, perhaps only 10 light years away, but maybe some have traveled several hundred light years. Is it reasonable to think that their crafts travel faster than the speed of light?

 

Even though some alien races may have survived beyond a deteriorated environment on their home planet and may be able to live in space continuously, I think they may still require pit stops to replenish supplies! I doubt any would set out on a 20 light year long round trip to planet Earth if their crafts could only travel as fast as light. I think it is reasonable to think their crafts travel much faster than light. This fact doesn’t reconcile with our current understanding of physics.

 

The maneuvers made by these UFO craft in our atmosphere suggest a propulsion system that uniformly accelerates all matter within the craft including the craft. I think alien beings are not capable of withstanding the enormous G forces that their bodies would experience, if a gravity-type of pull was not exerted evenly on all of the matter in their body. This propulsion system cannot be reconciled with our current understanding of physics.

 

This UFO evidence suggests to me that ALL movement of ALL particle matter (to include photons, electrons, atoms, people, cars, planets, UFO craft, etc…) is caused by the pull of long (many kilometers, but length varies), high speed (light years per second) ether particles traveling in straight lines and in ALL directions. These very fast, long, linear ether particles, LEPs, occupy “empty” space, including the space within ALL particle matter. (per cent fill ??)

 

Also, all matter is composed of ether particles. LEPs attach to and exert a gravity-type pull, a pull that is evenly and uniformly distributed throughout matter. These LEPs have the same speed as the matter which they are attached to and their numbers are proportional to the mass. LEPs radiating from two bodies of matter interact directly to cause gravity. Meaning, LEPs which are attached to one body of matter extend thru a second body of matter and exert some pull on the omnipresent LEP field existing everywhere even within the second body and, also, exert some pull (gravity) on the matter in the second body. (Clearly, LEPs are composed of smaller particles which have an affinity for each other, are directional (polarized), and readily arrange themselves into long perfectly straight strings.)

 

The impedance to the acceleration of matter, inertia, is caused by the LEP field. The constant speed of light is caused by the forward pull of LEPs on photons while forward movement is impeded by other LEPs, those not traveling exactly parallel to the photon’s direction, as they move rapidly (light years per second) past and out of the way of the oncoming photon.

 

LEPs are either pulling on a photon at the speed of light, or pulling on other matter at a lesser speed, or traveling across the universe at many light years per second. LEPs catch up to, attach to and pull on any LEP traveling less than maximum velocity. Since LEP length builds and has no theoretical limit, gravity has no theoretical limit. (LEPs which are attached to matter might explain the hidden dark matter. Also, one might see some similarity between the LEP and theoretical descriptions of the Higgs boson.)

 

UFO craft are accelerated by literally cutting, ripping, and tearing away LEPs behind the craft which are pulling in a direction opposite the desired direction of travel. Accelerating the craft to many times the speed of light is accomplished by cutting, ripping, and tearing away LEPs which penetrate the craft side to side and also which are ahead of the craft and perpendicular to the direction of travel.

 

The field between the plates of an air insulated capacitor consists of electrostatic lines which are “particle matter” just like photons and are pulled by LEPs extending them from the electrons on the negatively charged plate to the positively charged plate. The knife particle (KP) which will cut, rip, and tear LEPs away from ALL particle matter is a special twisted, rope-like, hardened, LINEAR particle created by tightly wrapping electrostatic lines together. Once created and free, the KP spins in the plane of its long axis and about the midpoint of its long axis as LEPs pull and unwrap electrostatic lines.

 

The KP, when located behind and spinning perpendicular to a craft’s desired direction of travel, will rip LEPs from matter in the craft and accelerate the craft forward. Also, spinning this particle ahead of and in planes parallel to a crafts direction of travel will cut through LEPs crossing in front, causing the craft to accelerate forward, but just as important it will accelerate all debris, including air, forward and to the side out of the space in front of the craft. (LEPs radiating from debris perpendicular to the direction of travel are ripped from the debris by KPs spinning in planes parallel to the direction of travel causing the debris to accelerate sideways.) This fact may explain the lack of a sonic boom as UFO craft travel at thousands of miles an hour in earth’s atmosphere. And it may also explain how UFO craft avoid striking space debris while traveling at light speed.

 

The radiation effects felt near UFO craft as they hover or accelerate away may be caused by the very short wavelength photons created as KPs unwrap. The electrostatic lines that make up the KP become very short wavelength photons. This may explain much of the colorful illumination reported surrounding UFO’s. The spinning KPs may create additional illumination by ionizing atoms in the atmosphere. The downward pressure felt by people located beneath the craft would be caused by KPs as they spin - cutting, ripping, and tearing LEPs away from matter in the human body. (If a UFO craft is spotted near ground, it would seem safest to just stay as far away as possible. Some alien occupants may not be very friendly, probably because hunters or military have fired weapons at them. Reports of aliens firing laser-like weapons at humans may be accurate.)

 

Saucer shaped craft that land on earth frequently leave a circular shaped irradiated area on the ground. Apparently, KPs radiated downward from the saucer rim may sterilize the soil beneath making new growth of plants difficult. Some reports suggest this radiation can be intense enough to start fires in dry grass. The ejected KPs in this radiation pattern forms the shape of a cylinder or cone. It should be recognized that unidentified submerged objects, USOs, when breaking the surface of the water frequently create a waterspout beneath them. If the KP radiation pattern beneath the saucer is cone shaped, it would accelerate vertically all matter within the cones volume, including the saucer. This would account for the water spout, and it may also suggest a method of creating a tractor beam.

 

LEP propulsion allows UFO craft to accelerate quickly to thousands of miles an hour, make fast sharp angled turns, and stop very quickly. LEPs are a source of immense energy. And, of course, LEPs are much faster than photons for communications. Nanometer sized molecular motors may be used to create KPs.

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

The KP is being suggested as a way to affect the LEP field. A short video (about 5 min) I saw on TV during the summer, 1996, suggested the same to me. The video showed a highly magnified view of a printed circuit board type device. On the board were thin filamentary conductors in a doubled-back spiral (Fermat’s spiral), that is, one conductor wrapped 85,000 times into the center of the spiral, reversed direction and wrapped another 85,000 times to the outer edge of the spiral, making a complete circuit. The entire circuit was about the size of the head of a pin. The entire board, about eleven inches square, was covered with these pin head sized circuits. Above the board was a mirror image board with the same circuits on it, so that these spiral circuits faced each other. In between the boards was a conductive layer with a single very small hole located centered in between each pair of spirals. A cut of the board also showed channels where a coolant could have flowed. The voice on the TV said it was not known if the board was used for communications or propulsion. I thought it was a communications board, mainly because some spirals were flat and some were concave. I don’t know if this short video was disinformation like “alien autopsy”. However, I don’t think the general public would have been very interested in it. At the time I had been trying to think of a way to wrap electrostatic lines together and the design of this device looked suitable. It seems to me this device could create KPs and cause faster than light digital communications by chopping up LEPs at two different rates.

 

Rough calculations suggest that since the length of conductor in each spiral may be about 100 meters and since the average rate of electron flow in commonly used conductors like copper, aluminum, silver, gold, etc., is in mm per second, these spirals are probably superconductors. Our current limited understanding of superconductors may be hindering efforts to recreate this technology.

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

This is theory stretching!

KPs spinning in planes parallel to the craft’s direction are ejected forward of the craft at the speed of light. They cut LEPs crossing in front of the craft. This causes the craft to be accelerated forward and debris to be accelerated forward and to the side. The KPs etch a tunnel in the LEP field which extends a million miles out. Assume the forward speed of light going down the tunnel has been increased 20 times relative to the speed outside the tunnel just by etching away LEPs. The craft, if it could travel one tenth the speed of light outside the tunnel, would now be traveling one tenth the light speed inside the tunnel or 372,000 miles per second (double the normal speed of light). It seems very plausible that KPs traveling down the tunnel at 20 times the speed of light could easily etch away new tunnel at the rate of double the normal speed of light in order to maintain a tunnel length of a million miles ahead of the craft.

 

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

“Linear space particle” may have been a better name than LEP, “linear ether particle”. Since I view the LEPs as the medium, I wasn't thinking of the old, ether meaning - a "luminiferous" or particle type medium thru which waves propagate.

 

I recall in high school seeing pictures of large spiral coils of copper wire 2 or 3 feet in diameter which were used to try to create a particle. Apparently, unsuccessful efforts to create KPs, a particle composed of electrostatic lines wrapped together, were attempted in the 1950’s, and probably many times since. I suspect efforts still continue, perhaps using nanometer sized molecular motors. I am hoping someone reading this might recognize the KP, have knowledge of efforts to create it, and be willing to share that knowledge. Thanks!

 

This post is a sincere attempt to try to make sense out of phenomena that is not well understood. It is mostly theory. Please keep in mind that the theory presented is metaphysics until people have created the KP particle and experimented with it. However, the short TV video that I saw and the pictures I saw in high school are facts. Does anyone have any additional information on efforts being made to create a KP, a particle composed of electrostatic lines wrapped together???? Thank you. jgjenson

[YT2095]

your Hypothesis (it`s NOT a "theory" at all), is based entirely upon one flawed premise (Highlighted below).

 

 

This UFO evidence suggests to me that ALL movement of ALL particle matter (to include photons, electrons, atoms, people, cars, planets, UFO craft, etc…) is caused by the pull of long (many kilometers, but length varies), high speed (light years per second) ether particles traveling in straight lines and in ALL directions. These very fast, long, linear ether particles, LEPs, occupy “empty” space, including the space within ALL particle matter. (per cent fill ??)

[jgjenson]

My Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Thesaurus gives the definition of theory as a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action. If your definition is more restrictive or otherwise slightly different, I certainly respect your desire to apply it. Thanks, jgjenson

[5614]

Theory in science has a slightly different meaning to theory elsewhere. Your definition of theory is the "elsewhere" type because it includes beliefs, this is very much a non-scientific definition. See here for more detail: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory

[jgjenson]

Applying a non-scientific definition to the word "theory" in a forum named "Pseudoscience and Speculation" seems entirely appropriate to me. If you reference wikipedia definition of "pseudoscience", pseudoscience "does not adhere to the scientific method". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

Thanks, jgjenson

[YT2095]

if we overlook the semantics and pedantry, your Hypothesis remains non the less flawed.

[jgjenson]

I am still hoping someone with specific knowledge will reply to the question in the last two paragraphs of my post. Thanks, jgjenson

[YT2095]

ok then Bob, Specifics... there is NO Evidence to support "LEPs", Ergo, any Hypothesis based upon this idea is Flawed.

 

how`s them apples?

 

oh yeah, as a Side note UFOs by Definition are "Unidentified" and therefore NOT assumed to be anything other than that.

[jgjenson]

Neither LEPs nor "apples" are mentioned in the last two paragraphs of my post. Please reread it. Thanks, jgjenson

[YT2095]

aha yes, my Bad, Should have mentioned KP`s as well as LEPs further up

 

 

I recall in high school seeing pictures of large spiral coils of copper wire 2 or 3 feet in diameter which were used to try to create a particle. Apparently, unsuccessful efforts to create KPs, a particle composed of electrostatic lines wrapped together, were attempted in the 1950’s, and probably many times since. I suspect efforts still continue, perhaps using nanometer sized molecular motors. I am hoping someone reading this might recognize the KP, have knowledge of efforts to create it, and be willing to share that knowledge. Thanks!

 

This post is a sincere attempt to try to make sense out of phenomena that is not well understood. It is mostly theory. Please keep in mind that the theory presented is metaphysics until people have created the KP particle and experimented with it. However, the short TV video that I saw and the pictures I saw in high school are facts. Does anyone have any additional information on efforts being made to create a KP, a particle composed of electrostatic lines wrapped together???? Thank you. jgjenson

 

However, my point still stands and to some extent even Stronger now (thanks to your correction), KP`s .... c`mon man, there`s No evidence for That either!

in fact it`s even more far-fetched than LEPs

[jgjenson]

The short TV video and pictures I saw in high school are facts. To me they are scientific facts, just like UFOs are facts to a pilot, astronaut or someone else who may have witnessed at close range a craft of unusual shape exhibiting unusual flight characteristics. I understand your "point" of view and I think many people would agree with you. Thanks, jgjenson

[insane_alien]

not to mention the whole point of a UFO is that it is unidentified, you don't know anything about it other than it flies and it is an object.

 

you are assuming that they are manned for one. they could be UAV's you are also assuming that they are extraterrestrial, governments have black book projects. and you are making a huge assumption on how they are powered despite the fact that these aliens are supposedly miles ahead of us in technology and probably have stuff we couldn't imagine.

 

then theres the whole bad science of ether and 'knife particles' and what not....

 

your hypothesis has less to stand on than a no legged man in an asskicking contest in the depths of space.

[YT2095]

I think it`s Possible you May have misinterpreted what you saw in that film if indeed it was Fact.

 

you see, there`s Nothing wrong with the idea in Principal, in fact it`s Scientifically Sound, how else would a little paper boat with a some soap on the back move forwards in a bath of water?

well simple, the soap breaks the surface tension behind the boat and the waters "Skin" Pulls the boat forwards.

there`s Nothing wrong with that at all.

 

the problem is when you introduce things that have NO foundation in any truth and then try to apply this to something that has truth in it.

now Many people will think WOW, it Must be right! based upon what little knowledge they have, and of course if you throw in a few TLAs for good measure and make it Sound official all the better.

 

this is exactly what`s happening here.

Also, I`m a UFO believer, all scientists are, you would be a fool Not to, I`v even seen a few myself, it does NOT mean however that it had ETs on board with little KP LEP cutting particles shooting out the back!

 

Thanks, YT

[mooeypoo]

Applying a non-scientific definition to the word "theory" in a forum named "Pseudoscience and Speculation" seems entirely appropriate to me. If you reference wikipedia definition of "pseudoscience", pseudoscience "does not adhere to the scientific method". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoscience

Thanks, jgjenson

 

It is still a *SCIENCE* forum network. This forum exists so that we examine pseudoscience in *scientific* eyes.

 

You might not be in teh right place, if you don't want rational scientific review.

 

The short TV video and pictures I saw in high school are facts. To me they are scientific facts, just like UFOs are facts to a pilot, astronaut or someone else who may have witnessed at close range a craft of unusual shape exhibiting unusual flight characteristics. I understand your "point" of view and I think many people would agree with you. Thanks, jgjenson

 

Their existence is fact. What they show is doubtful, and depends on its own, independantly-validated merit.

 

I've watch the Fantastic 4 on TV the other day. Its existence is fact. The details? far... faaaaaaaaaaaaar from it.

 

[edit/add] -- okay, for that matter, when I am tired and rub my eyes, I start seeing dots dancing in front of me. It's a well known phenomena, many people see the same, and it's a *fact* that they exist. To go from the fact that I see them to the conclusion of what they are simply because I saw them is flawed logic. People used to think they are fairies. That doesn't mean it's true.

Careful study of the human body shows exactly what they are, and explain the phenomena; The fact many people instinctively think they are "mysterious" don't make them so. The fact pilots saw something they didn't understand/recognize does NOT mean it is automatically an alien. It means they saw something they didn't recognize that requires further inquiry.

 

That's the method of analyzing.

 

~moo

[jgjenson]

As of today, 10/24/2008, no person has responded to the ??? posed in my post. But I did chance across some very interesting web sites which may tentatively corroborate a beam of KP's projected forward of a craft to provide propulsion. Please see:

 

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/oniondrive/onion.htm

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/case_hyperdrive_ufos.html

[Klaynos]

Let me answer, you can't create new particles using a pair of copper coils...

 

You need to bang together existing particles really hard.

 

And I've never heard of a KP particle... I suspect if one of the particle physicists who post on the forums had they would have replied.

[insane_alien]

jgjenson, nobody responded to your question because it is based on faulty assumptions and crap science. not only this but it requires that several physical laws be completely wrong and that reality goes on holiday for a while.

 

the question is meaningless.

[mooeypoo]

As of today, 10/24/2008, no person has responded to the ??? posed in my post. But I did chance across some very interesting web sites which may tentatively corroborate a beam of KP's projected forward of a craft to provide propulsion. Please see:

 

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/oniondrive/onion.htm

http://www.stargate-chronicles.com/case_hyperdrive_ufos.html

 

Okay, for something to be realistic it needs to be based on reality. That's quite simple.

 

I am (well, used to be, no time now, sadly) a Startrek fan. Not one of those heavy-trekkies (or trekkers, whatever the difference is, though I think going to a convention once might be fun), but I do like it a lot, and as a child I was very much interested in how they explained the basis for their science.

 

Gene Rodenberry, the creator of Star Trek, took it as a mission to make it as realistically-sounding as realistically-possible. He had a crew of scientists helping him form PLAUSIBLE theories and plausible engines/phenomena etc. In Star Trek TNG, Voyager and Deep Space 9, those scientists were responsible to make sure that whatever can be *based* on real scientific data, will be, and whatever can't be, will sound so complicated that it won't matter (the base for "Tehcno Babble").

 

As a result, a lot of what they show in Startrek (and before you flame me, guys, don't misquote me as saying *most* or *everything*.. just a lot) has a very nice "logic" to it. I have, at home, a book about "Enterprise Engineering" - a book full of the USS Enterprise blueprints and explanation about the tech and engines in a "scientific" manner. It all sounds really good, and it sounds realistic, and it's all total crap. It's make-belief.

 

What's cool about the book, btw, is that whenever the authors had to invent something to make a technology possible, they wrote about it on the margins. They end up making a lot of invented-science to get to a lot of their technology, but the piont is that "IFFFFF there would be this and that, we would be able to--" the rest. That's pretty awesome, and it makes the show look realistic.

 

 

But it's *NOT* based on reality. Not really.

It sounds it, if you don't go into the real physics.

It sounds it, if you are a kid or young adult with very little knowledge of the universe.

It sounds it, if you don't know physics much.

 

That's the point. To SOUNDS like it is realistic.

 

But it's not. It's made up. The second the authors of the book had to *INVENT* a particle, or a phenomena, or guestimate without checking that there is "subspace", and then invent how it behaves based on whatever was available on their times, it is NO MORE than a really interesting, amusing, and perhaps fun, fantasy.

 

If you invent a particle, then no matter how "logical" your remaining hypothesis is, it's still fantasy.

 

If you invent phenomena and their properties, then no matter how "logical" your remaining hypothesis is, it's still fantasy.

 

For this drive to be realistic, you need to make sure it's correlating with physical laws and that you can explain it WITHOUT inventing a particle or a phenomena. If you have reason to believe such particles exist, then you should go on, now, to *look* for those particles. That's what scientists do.

 

There were a number of occasions where scientists assumed that there must be *something* (particle, phenomena, star, another planet) somewhere, that will explain their hypothesis. But as long as they didn't *FIND* this 'something', their theory was bunk. When they did, and that something correlated their assumption, they could go on to formulate their initial hypothesis, based on the behaviour of whatever it is they proved does exist.

 

You can't just invent stuff and call it science.

 

~moo

 

P.S - here's a nice reference to some StarTrek made-up engineering "Course" for an online gaming site - http://www.ucip.org/acad/courselist/guides/engineering/index.html#2 <-- the explanations sounds totally realistic (if you don't go into the full physics of it and ignore whatever's made up), which is why it's so much fun.

It's also bunk. Completely. For so many reasons... nice read, though.

Edited October 25, 2008 by mooeypoo

[swansont]

The posts on gravity reversal have been movede to their own thread

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53990

[nec209]

LEPs are either pulling on a photon at the speed of light, or pulling on other matter at a lesser speed, or traveling across the universe at many light years per second. LEPs catch up to, attach to and pull on any LEP traveling less than maximum velocity. Since LEP length builds and has no theoretical limit, gravity has no theoretical limit. (LEPs which are attached to matter might explain the hidden dark matter. Also, one might see some similarity between the LEP and theoretical descriptions of the Higgs boson.)

 

UFO craft are accelerated by literally cutting, ripping, and tearing away LEPs behind the craft which are pulling in a direction opposite the desired direction of travel. Accelerating the craft to many times the speed of light is accomplished by cutting, ripping, and tearing away LEPs which penetrate the craft side to side and also which are ahead of the craft and perpendicular to the direction of travel.

 

Nice but what technology can do that and how does it work? Is it scientifically possible?

 

Most scientist or engineers who claim they have worked on UFO point to element 115 or megnetic propulsion using mono megnetic? There is no mono megnetic on earth .They claim you can manipulate poles and the craft runs on megnetic propulsion .

 

The levitation or anti-gravity did not come from UFO investigator or UFO claims but from people in their house that claim they have made a levitation or anti-gravity device and now every one is wow does such thing exit do to the media hipe.But no university or business have made a levitation or anti-gravity device other than people who claim they made a device in their home .

 

 

Relativity is saying faster than light is not possable but wormholes or Alcubierre drive (Warp Drive) is loop hole that does not brake the faster than light if in the next 50 or 100 years from now wormholes or Alcubierre drive can be proven to exit and work. It only a theory now.

[nec209]

My Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Thesaurus gives the definition of theory as a belief, policy, or procedure proposed or followed as the basis of action. If your definition is more restrictive or otherwise slightly different, I certainly respect your desire to apply it. Thanks, jgjenson

 

Again if you read http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=40756

 

They debuck LEPs but point to other energy type .

[dragonstar57]

faster than light travel is possible

step 1 take 2 flashlights and hold them so their lights shine in opposite directions (like Darth mauls lightsaber)

step 2 make the frame of reference of one of the photons leaving one of the flash lights

step now look at the photon leaving the other flash light is is moving at 2x the speed of light away from your frame of reference

but your idea is crazy not that i'm saying its wrong but its crazy and nonsensical

Edited August 11, 2010 by cipher510