neo007 Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Yesterday, i was reading about how electrons have different orbitals, within shells and the shape of the orbitals. I quickly realises that the orbitals took a spherical shape. My question is: What causes the electrons to move in this orbital, and stay in there most of the time? Is it because electrons are though to be spherical themselves? Is it because protons exert a force, possibly an even force, like that of a magnetic field? Or is it something to do with the waves of electrons? Can anyone answer this for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 Orbitals don't have a spherial shape, which is sort of to do with particle wave duality (there sort of lobular) Protons do emit an field, they're POSITIVE and electrons are NEGATIVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo007 Posted February 18, 2004 Author Share Posted February 18, 2004 thanks for the info, but that doesn't really answer my question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 neo007 said in post # :What causes the electrons to move in this orbital, and stay in there most of the time? Is it because electrons are though to be spherical themselves? Is it because protons exert a force, possibly an even force, like that of a magnetic field? Or is it something to do with the waves of electrons? Can anyone answer this for me? electrons can only exist within the atom in discrete energy levels. Remember that electrons have a particle and wave nature - the only levels that an electron can take are where the path around the electron is a whole number of waves. There are other quantum numbers that make this more complicated, but that is beyond the scope of this thread. The wavelength of an electron is related to it's distance from the proton, since there is an attractive force between the two of them due to the electric field (protons are positive, electrons negative) Again this is complicated in multi-electron atoms since the electrons interact with one another as well. This is a really basic description, things are actually alot more complex than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 neo007 said in post # :thanks for the info, but that doesn't really answer my question Well, given that you've based the entire question of orbitals being spherical, I think it's more rendered invalid than answered, except 3 and 4. Electrons aren't known to be spherical (we don't even know if they have a volume), and 1 is the same as 3 and 4 (sort of) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agaubr Posted February 27, 2004 Share Posted February 27, 2004 The picture you describe is an electron density map which predicts where the most likelhood you will see an electron with that particular energy. A spherical descrption is for a s-orbital whcih can occur with pricinpal quntum numbers of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc. The pricipal quantum number describe the distance from the nucleus the electron is located with thelarger values being greater distance from the nucleus. There are othe rorbitals with much more variation in shape as the p, d, f, and g's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyperdimension Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 what you have read is just a theory, no one have proved it to be true... yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg1917 Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 Its a theory which is very likely to be true and is being taught to every single high school chemistry student in the world. No one has proved it to be true because proof in this sense is nigh on impossible to obtain. Seeing as pretty much all of chemistry is based on this system and seems to comply with experimental evidence and help explain it, I see no reason to beilieve it isnt true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Posted April 2, 2004 Share Posted April 2, 2004 nicely put, orbitals take on different shapes depending on the sub-level they are in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 Electrons aren't known to be spherical (we don't even know if they have a volume) According to Dirac theory electrons are point particles, and all of the physical evidence is consistent with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Posted April 3, 2004 Share Posted April 3, 2004 e- + e+ -> 2gamma, so i assume that they have atleast a volume, plus the point of collisions tells me they atleast have mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 e- + e+ -> 2gamma' date=' so i assume that they have atleast a volume, plus the point of collisions tells me they atleast have mass[/quote'] They have a wave function, plus they interact via the electrostatic and weak interactions. But if you do experiments that try to measure their size, you get a small number which is experimentally consistent with zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 But if it was zero twould be nothing, so they must have some volume,unless there are light but they aren't........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 But if it was zero twould be nothing, so they must have some volume,unless there are light but they aren't........ Remember that electrons exhibit wave properties as well. But when you try to measure their size, a particle property, it's consistent with them being the point particle that Dirac theory predicts. It's not like they have to hit "head on" in order to annihilate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apathy Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Orbitals don't have a spherial shape' date=' which is sort of to do with particle wave duality (there sort of lobular) Protons do emit an field, they're POSITIVE and electrons are NEGATIVE.[/quote'] s orbitals ARE spherical the rest are lobular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apathy Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 e- + e+ -> 2gamma' date=' so i assume that they have atleast a volume, plus the point of collisions tells me they atleast have mass[/quote'] my basic chem and physics book tell me they have mass too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 my basic chem and physics book tell me they have mass too The electrons do, but not the photons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash Posted May 30, 2004 Share Posted May 30, 2004 I thought photons did have mass and size, maybe it was not in one of the normal spacial dimensions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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