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Brown's Gas supplements gasoline?


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Is there any weight to the claim made by these web sites:

 

http://www.water4gas.com and http://www.savefuel.ca ?

 

They send HHO into a vacuum line of a gasoline engine and presumably you save fuel...Someone told me there was a recent Popular Science article that debunked these claims. I am really tempted to get a kit from the first site and try it.

 

Also I heard a similar process was implemented on WWII P51 mustangs to super charge them and it worked okay - when it did work; otherwise they blew up.....

 

any insights are appreciated.

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They send HHO into a vacuum line of a gasoline engine and presumably you save fuel...Someone told me there was a recent Popular Science article that debunked these claims. I am really tempted to get a kit from the first site and try it.
Manufacture and storage of the gas, if indeed HHO even exists (no peer review done to date iirc), would make it practically impossible to "save" anything, much like current biofuel work with corn. If it saved you gasoline it would cost as much or more in other energy areas.
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The problem with water is that it takes up a lot of energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen. Electrolysis of water is a very inefficient process.

 

I've never heard of HHO

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presumably when you run a charge (6v) through it, H2O becomes HHO, and somehow mysteriously, a very small quantity of hydrogen passes in a vacuum into the engine along with a lot of water I guess; You add like baking soda to the water to activate the charge (clueless here - so knowledgeable readers forgive me). Wikipedia explains it...

 

My question is whether their claims of up to 1/3 improvement in fuel efficiency is due to the fact that water is displacing the fuel and less fuel is going into the intake or something. Often, the oxygen sensor will sense less fuel, so actually add more gas and you burn more, unless you can trick the sensor to think all is well...

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There is a fundamental flaw with this logic.

 

HHO is an energy *CARRIER* and gasoline is an energy *SOURCE*.

 

In order to produce HHO, you need energy from somewhere else, whilst gasoline is already there, and all one has to do is pump it out and refine it and voila, energy in a fluid!

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The only possibility is if the addition of water somehow meant that the combustion was more efficient, and you converted more of your hydrocarbon into CO2 and H2O. That should be easily measurable.

 

"Brown's gas" as an energy source is crapola.

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Ah yes, the old burning water thing, aka the urban myth that wouldn't die. It even spills over into an almost fanatical belief that hydrogen fuel is the savation of the planet among certain groups, and of course this brown's gas nonsense. The hilarious part is there is a small (a very tiny) grain of truth like in most urban legends.

 

Once upon a time in America, when horses were being replaced by tractors all across the country, the petroleum companies had a little problem. The infrastructure to refine and deliver all that gasoline the tractors needed didn't yet exist. They could produce and deliver plenty of kerosene, as that was already in use for oil lamps, home heating, cooking and such. Problem solved.

 

Now with some modification an internal combustion engine will run fine on kerosene. You have to design it to have the carburator and intake manifold at a higher temperature so the kerosene will volitalise. And you have to find a way to raise the octane rating of kerosene, which is pretty bad.

 

So, a water injection system was devised, with its own tank and injection pump. For something like every 15 or 20 gallon of kerosene you 'burned' a gallon or so of water. Smoothed the engines out nicely and also eliminated carbon buildup.

 

Yes, there were engines that 'burned' water, but not as fuel.

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Ah yes, the old burning water thing, aka the urban myth that wouldn't die. It even spills over into an almost fanatical belief that hydrogen fuel is the savation of the planet among certain groups, and of course this brown's gas nonsense. The hilarious part is there is a small (a very tiny) grain of truth like in most urban legends.

 

Once upon a time in America, when horses were being replaced by tractors all across the country, the petroleum companies had a little problem. The infrastructure to refine and deliver all that gasoline the tractors needed didn't yet exist. They could produce and deliver plenty of kerosene, as that was already in use for oil lamps, home heating, cooking and such. Problem solved.

 

Now with some modification an internal combustion engine will run fine on kerosene. You have to design it to have the carburator and intake manifold at a higher temperature so the kerosene will volitalise. And you have to find a way to raise the octane rating of kerosene, which is pretty bad.

 

So, a water injection system was devised, with its own tank and injection pump. For something like every 15 or 20 gallon of kerosene you 'burned' a gallon or so of water. Smoothed the engines out nicely and also eliminated carbon buildup.

 

Yes, there were engines that 'burned' water, but not as fuel.

 

Another example was the water injection systems used on some WWII aircraft. In order to get more power, they would use a turbocharger. The problem was that this could lead to pre-detonation of the fuel mixture, which, in turn, could damage the engine. The water was injected to prevent this pre-detonation.

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Interesting. Didn't know about water injection on ww2 aircraft. Makes sense though. Same problem as kerosene tractors. Predetonation. My dad actually ran some of those old tractors as a youth. They had three tanks, a small gasoline tank, a water tank and a kerosene tank. They started on gasoline. Then when they warmed up enough you switched over to kerosene which was much cheaper at the time. And then you fed water to smooth out the "pinging". Actually, he said you fed water to stop the engine from "clattering like a ........". There are young people on the board so I'll let your imagination fill in the blank. ;)

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Hydrogen Fuel Injection is a proven technology. Vehicles equipped with it produce hydrogen using electrolysis powered by the vehicle's fuel system, then injected into the air intake. Fuel efficiency and horsepower are improved because hydrogen burns faster and hotter than diesel, dramatically boosting combustion efficiency.

 

If "Brown's gas"/"HHO gas" is what it appears to be, that is to say HYDROGEN, then yes, you'll get the same effect.

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  • 6 months later...

I think water4gas.com and savefuel.ca are sites out there looking to scam people not well educated on the subject.

 

I am trying to build an electrolysis unit to inject hydrogen into my vehicle's air intake to increase performance and decrease fuel consumption. I probably will never put it in my truck, but it is fun to experiment with.

 

A lot of people talk about how it takes enormous amounts of energy to produce enough hydrogen to make a difference. My question is "What happens to the excess electrical energy produced by a vehicle's alternator?" Explain to me if I am wrong, but shouldn't we be able to capture that excess energy and produce some hydrogen from "relatively free" water.

 

There are companies that have been manufacturing products like I am experimenting with for years. They install hydrogen injection systems onto trucks and see an increase in performance and decrease in fuel consumption...

 

 

 

I think this is what bascule was referring to, or quite similar.

Does anyone know if there is something more complex going on here than just capturing H2 from electrolysis and pumping into the engine?

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A lot of people talk about how it takes enormous amounts of energy to produce enough hydrogen to make a difference. My question is "What happens to the excess electrical energy produced by a vehicle's alternator?" Explain to me if I am wrong, but shouldn't we be able to capture that excess energy and produce some hydrogen from "relatively free" water.

 

Are you sure it's excess energy? If using it puts a load on the system, it's not free (i.e. it's not waste).

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I have seen many scams on the net... they all seem to:

 

1. Say that energy is actually for free

2. The fact that we still pay for it is a conspiracy by the oil companies

3. We should buy their revolutionary product from their crappy website

4. They find a lot of resistance from mainstream science and industry, but those are all part of the conspiracy

 

But on a more serious note...

Combustion engines produce a lot of waste heat. What if a part of this waste heat is utilized to evaporate a little water to create a bit more punch in the engine? This would of course cool down the gas mixture created in the cylinder... but perhaps the sum of the positive and negative effect still give some extra juice to a car? (And perhaps the water will permanently ruin some parts of the engine?)

 

This is apparently tested in WWII aircraft and in prehistorical tractors, but does anyone know if it also generated more power? (It was used to make the engine run more smooth).

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  • 3 months later...

where did this myth come from about excess energy from your alternator?

alternators are voltage regulated they produce energy as needed, as the load increases. they dont just produce energy that gets wasted. think about it if its wasted where does it go. solar power systems that produce too much power need to have heaters to waste excess power to keep from damaging batteries and components. your vehicle isnt equipped with anything like that i promise. if you really want to figure out some way to make your car get better milage then learn some science and math. then maybe your not just shooting in the dark.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am not a scientist, but I am a tinkerer. My father approached me regarding this subject, and I thought it would be entertaining, if not effective.

 

The concept is that a typical ice runs around 30 to 40 percent efficiency. Electrolysis of water produces monatomic hydrogen and oxygen in a two to one ratio, with some water vapor and other elements in the mix. By adding a volume of this to the air intake on your vehicle, you are increasing the burn in the cylinder by adding the much more explosive power of hydrogen to the air mix. The hydrogen burns hotter, but the water vapor cools the engine simultaneously.

 

Again, I'm not a scientist, but we built and installed a unit in my father's 95 ford ranger. The only other modification we made was to wrap the oxygen sensors in aluminum foil to cause them to run hotter so they would lean out the mix in the engine. Within 5 minutes of running the vehicle with this equipment, the engine ran smoother, stopped knocking, and the constant smoke in his exhaust seemed to dissipate.

 

Driving, according to my Dad, the truck has more pickup and runs smoother. Able to go up hills in a higher gear. he's been running it for a month now and fuel economy has gone from 19 mpg to 27 mpg without any other changes in driving habits, fuel choice, tuneup, etc.

 

You are absolutely drawing more juice from the alternator to supply the electrolysis, but you are getting it back in burn efficiency. Does it work on paper, I couldn't say. I can say it's working for him.

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Hi there,

 

I think this information may help you out, since I didn't bother to read any of the posts that clearly debunked HHO fuel.

 

Have you ever heard of HHO fuel that has got to be the best way to save on gas prices.?

? Imagine the savings. It will cost you about $160, or two tanks of gas to install an HHO

 

conversion kit (sorry about the format, I just copy/pasted from other sites I spam on a daily basis).

 

Hydrogen Car Kit - Save Money and Improve MPG Massively (massively = not at all)

Hydrogen car kit empowers your car to run on water and avoid oil as fuel (except as noted in the very next sentence). A vehicle however

will not be able to run on water alone. There needs to be a mixture of gasoline and water to

enable it to run smoothly (which is really no help at all)

 

Even the Water Fuel Conversion Kits - How Using Water As Fuel Helps Cut Your Gas Consumption (by burning the kits, of course)

 

Recently,there is increased awareness among many drivers of a technology that uses plain

 

water tosupplement the cars' gasoline consumption (awareness = desperation). In the past, it was always a bad thing to mix water with your gasoline, but it's OK now that I can make money from your gullibility. Called a water fuel conversion kit, it is

 

a simpleadd-on to your current car engine that uses your car battery to carry out an

 

electrolysis on water to produce Hydroxy gas (HHO, which has been thoroughly debunked by chemists and engineers all over the world)). This Hydroxy gas is used to supplement

 

the burning ofgasoline in the car's engine. Please stop laughing.

 

 

Hydrogen generator kit for car can be better than gasoline or oil additives to raise my bank balance. When you make or do it on your own, you can save money on gas but will save lots

of dollars on the kit and reproduce the system for other automobiles on your own.

 

saving money should be what everyonr thinks off and I have done this by using all ideas from

my free Ebook - http://www.howstupidcanpeoplebe.net

 

I purchased the available eBooks that teach you how to run your car on water and installed

 

one on my "chevy 350 small block," it's pretty easy to fool the gullible.

Edited by Phi for All
truth filters ON
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  • 2 months later...

hi!!

i hope this site may help many people.....Has anyone tried other kit?

 

You don't have to try something to understand that it works.

I've seen facts on the news and all over the Internet, that running a car on water IS possible. Even that I haven't tried doing it, it doesn't mean that it's impossible.

 

this is not spam but i want many people to see other choice.Has anyone tried the kit? like water4gas,runyourcaronwater etc.

Is it really a scam? if you don't satisfy you can asked for refund..no more pain

You can truly get better mileage....http://deleted

 

thank you for visit my site

Edited by Phi for All
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you need some plausible mechanism for it working though.

 

1l of petrol has 2x amount of chemical energy accessible.

 

0.5l of petrol and 0.5l of water only has x amount of chemical energy accessible...

 

So unless someone posts a decent plausible mechanisim for this I vote it ain't real.

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the only way to increase the energy released by the petrol is to make it burn more completely. this can be easily achieved via running it lean (if you have one of the old cars with a manual choke) or by putting an automated computer controlled system in place like modern cars which do it all immensely better than the manual system.

 

whichever way you look at it, cars today make a damn good job of complete combustion. there is only a tiny fraction of unburnt or partially burnt hydrocarbons/carbonmonoxide leftover.

 

while theoretically possible to squeeze a fraction of a joule per stroke per cylinder, it is far from practical. the 'HHO' method is actually detrimental because

1/ HHO as described by the proponents DOES NOT AND CANNOT exist..

2/ losses far exceed the possible gains.

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  • 3 weeks later...
the only way to increase the energy released by the petrol is to make it burn more completely. this can be easily achieved via running it lean (if you have one of the old cars with a manual choke) or by putting an automated computer controlled system in place like modern cars which do it all immensely better than the manual system.

 

whichever way you look at it, cars today make a damn good job of complete combustion. there is only a tiny fraction of unburnt or partially burnt hydrocarbons/carbonmonoxide leftover.

 

while theoretically possible to squeeze a fraction of a joule per stroke per cylinder, it is far from practical. the 'HHO' method is actually detrimental because

1/ HHO as described by the proponents DOES NOT AND CANNOT exist..

2/ losses far exceed the possible gains.

 

Electrolysis of water is not 100% efficient. Electrolysis will consume more energy than will be recovered by burning the resultant hydrogen and oxygen. That burning will also not allow 100% recovery of the thermal energy and conversion to mechanical energy (motion) or electricity.

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