propaul80 Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 I have a piece of Americium 241 at .9 microcuries. I placed it on a glow in the dark sticker and in about 30 seconds, the sticker starts to loose its glow. The americium is emitting a strong alpha radiation, but I am unsure of why this is happening. Can anyone fill me in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runner Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Sorry I can’t answer your question, but I have on myself. Did you get the Americium from a smoke detector? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Americium 241 is releasing the alpha particles emmited from the radioactive inclusion, thus will damage and discolour your "glowing sticker" the higher the energy the faster this will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propaul80 Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Ya, i kind of figured it had to do with the alpha radiation....but what exactly is going on there. And ya I got it out of the smoke detector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 Americium-241 primarily emits alpha particles, but also emits gamma rays. Americium-241 will throw off an alpha particle. An alpha particle is made up of two protons and two neutrons bound together. In the process of emitting the alpha particle, the americium-241 atom becomes a neptunium-237 atom. The alpha particle leaves the scene at a high velocity. So by alpha decay (Ne), to Np this inclusive decay will discolour your sticker, any better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propaul80 Posted January 12, 2004 Author Share Posted January 12, 2004 Everything u just said I already know. What I want to know is why the alpha particles are discouloring the sticker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted January 12, 2004 Share Posted January 12, 2004 propaul80 said in post #6 :Everything u just said I already know. What I want to know is why the alpha particles are discouloring the sticker. Alphas deposit a lot of energy in a short distance. Most likely they are destroying whatever molecules that are in the sticker, rather than just exciting an electron like is supposed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propaul80 Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 Thats a possiblilty, however the glow comes back after a minute. How do u explain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 propaul80 said in post #8 :Thats a possiblilty, however the glow comes back after a minute. How do u explain that? I'd guess that the alphas are ionizing or at least exciting the electrons above their metastable state, which means the material can't fluoresce the way it usually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 I`ve writen a thread almost identical to this somewhere on here also, here`s what I`ve found, it will NOT work, the sticker that you used is plastic coated zinc sulphide, alpa particles will not even pass the plastic coat, secondly zinc sulphide will not respond to alpha particles nor will calcium sulphide. the best reaction you`re likely to get will be with Sodium Iodide on a the Am241 slug then mounted on a glass slide under a microscope in a totaly dark room, patients is then what you`ll need, there will be tiny little light flashes (scintilations). This DOES work you`ll need Gamma particles for Zinc or Calcium sulphide to trigger (Radium as used in the old paint for clock faces). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propaul80 Posted January 13, 2004 Author Share Posted January 13, 2004 where can i get the sodium iodine from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 13, 2004 Share Posted January 13, 2004 well, if you have no Lab supplier, then you will have to make your own (it`s not that hard to do, trust me:)) goto your local chemist/pharmacy and buy a bottle of "Tincure of Iodine" then goto a hardware shop and buy some Lye (Sodium Hydroxide) or Caustic Soda as it`s often called. take a small spoonfull of Sodium hydroxide and add it to a cup of cold water, make sure it all dissolves. then pour your Iodine Ticture into another cup. slowly with an eye dropper (pipette) add the hydroxide soln to the Iodine tincture, eventualy the color will turn from dark brown to a light light orange, and then eventualy it`ll be clear like water. but you`ll see a lemon yellow powder at the bottom of the cup, THAT is Sodium Iodide just filter it (coffee filter papers are good) then wash it in clean water a few times and dry it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propaul80 Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 arg to hard. ok well i know that the americium also gives of maybe about 1000cpm of gamma. Is there any easy to do gamma experiments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 14, 2004 Share Posted January 14, 2004 I find myself questioning a few things here, A) your motives B) your sanity. this arrises from the thought that if you had to ask such basic questions, then Playing (and that`s all it would be) with Gamma emitters would be foolish to say the very least! the answer to your question is : YES, there are many ways. and NO I`ll not tell you what they are or how to do them, I`de sooner see you on here in 50 years time still asking questions than see you go down with something really clever like Leukemia or skin cancers, get my drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
propaul80 Posted January 14, 2004 Author Share Posted January 14, 2004 the gamma radiation is very week. Why would they even let that americium in your smoke detector then? Its a very small amount. Its not like im handling it anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 you`ll get very little to no gamma from Am241, and only slightly more Beta. the only way you could possible isolate and convert some particles would be to cover the Am241 slug with Beryllium foil, and then send the emmisions through parafin wax. you`ll get some gamma that way, but nothing of any significance. there are much better isotope sources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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