bluesmudge Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 plus people will hate IE no matter what you do to it - theres no competition FF will always win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Looking obsolete is not the same as being obsolete. Hiding the menu system that you have been training people to become accustomed to for the better part of two decades is a massive gamble in terms of usability' date=' and it remains to be seen - by a LONG way - if it will pay off in any way.[/quote'] Yeah, we seem to be concentrating too much on how it looks, when, in reality, you can make Firefox look anyway you want with it's customization ability and extension support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Not to mention writing your own chrome specifications. Try doing that with a closed source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weknowthewor Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Try out the addons of FF and then compare with IE 7.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herme3 Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 I believe that IE7 has quite a few good addons: http://www.ieaddons.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 A lot of those cost money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jelx Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I like my Firefox 2 interface: http://img466.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ffinterfacemc4.jpg FF is definitely very customizable. I still use IE7 for some tasks though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 I believe that IE7 has quite a few good addons: http://www.ieaddons.com Casting pearls before swine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan2here Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 IE addons cost money and IE gives you spyware and virus and It is bulkware and the addons suck and It is fetureless and incecure and renders website's pages badly and is slow and closed source and you are dameging the internet by being so gullable as to use it. Please dont post examples of a few places where it is not those things coz as a whole it is. We all know what the right thing to do is http://www.mozilla.com/en/firefox/ Firefox dos'nt need to try and be like IE, it has been so sucsessfull because it is not like IE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 My interface is the coolest. file/view/history/bookmarks/tools (no edit or help) the address bar, and my bookmarks. All in ONE bar. No back/forward buttons, all controlled with mouse gestures. No one else can use it but me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 alan2here: I might agree that IE is bad, but I think you're just going off the deep end there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herme3 Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 I haven't heard one person give an intelligent complaint about IE7. All I've ever heard is that "it isn't Firefox". I really can't think of any reason Firefox2 is better than IE7 other than the fact that it is open source. Other than that, I see a better interface and a more stable browser in IE7. I'm beginning to wonder if anybody here has actually tried IE7, or if they are basing their complaints on the flaws of IE6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Still bad standards support. It's gotten better, but it still sucks. Security. IE7 only runs in the "sandbox" in Vista, but the upgrade is being offered to XP users as well. Bad interface. It's shiny, sure, but it's totally different compared to all previous applications in Windows (and many others in Vista as well). Sticking to one interface standard is a good thing. It makes things easier to figure out for everybody. That's just a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 I haven't heard one person give an intelligent complaint about IE7. All I've ever heard is that "it isn't Firefox". I really can't think of any reason Firefox2 is better than IE7 other than the fact that it is open source. Other than that, I see a better interface and a more stable browser in IE7. I'm beginning to wonder if anybody here has actually tried IE7, or if they are basing their complaints on the flaws of IE6. I've tried IE7. I didn't like it at all, and went back to Firefox within about 30 minutes. Here's the major reasons: I like the fact that Firefox 2 supports both extensions and theme modifications out of the box. IE does not. The most useful plugin in the world, AdBlock, doesn't run under IE as far as I'm aware. Microsoft has shown us time and time again that they really don't care about standards. It's taken them 6 years to bring IE6 up to scratch, and only after immense complaints from the web development community. I would prefer to stick with Firefox, simply because I know that they will uphold these standards. I don't like the fact that I have no menus in IE 7. I don't like IE 7's implementation of tabs. The DOM inspector is possibly the most useful tool I've come across when debugging layouts. Don't get me wrong: IE7 is not a bad browser. However, I prefer to run Firefox 2, safe in the knowledge that it's much less likely to break my entire system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herme3 Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 Still bad standards support. It's gotten better, but it still sucks. This is a very good point. As a web developer, I try to make sure my web sites work with both IE7 and Firefox. Once I get the site working well in IE7, I will normally run into problems with Firefox. If I fix the problem with Firefox, the site won't display correctly in IE7. I sometimes have problems with both browsers even if I use W3 to verify my site is compliant with the standards. Why can't both browsers just work the same way? Security. IE7 only runs in the "sandbox" in Vista, but the upgrade is being offered to XP users as well. I'm not sure about XP, but IE7 with Vista is the only browser I've ever used that has never let a trojan into my computer. Bad interface. It's shiny, sure, but it's totally different compared to all previous applications in Windows (and many others in Vista as well). Sticking to one interface standard is a good thing. It makes things easier to figure out for everybody. I don't think a new interface standard is necessarily a bad one. If software companies avoided change, we all would still be using a command interface. I don't like IE 7's implementation of tabs. I actually think IE7 has the best implementation of tabs. When you first open Firefox, it doesn't even look like it supports tabbed browsing. I had to open the help menu to figure out how to open a new tab. With IE7, you can easily open a new tab. My favorite tab feature in IE7 is the ability to see what is happening in all tabs at once. The DOM inspector is possibly the most useful tool I've come across when debugging layouts. I do like the DOM inspector, which is a main reason I keep Firefox on my computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 This is a very good point. As a web developer, I try to make sure my web sites work with both IE7 and Firefox. Once I get the site working well in IE7, I will normally run into problems with Firefox. If I fix the problem with Firefox, the site won't display correctly in IE7. I sometimes have problems with both browsers even if I use W3 to verify my site is compliant with the standards. Why can't both browsers just work the same way? Ask Microsoft. Mozilla is trying to follow the set standards (the reflow branch just made it into Firefox 3, finally allowing it to pass Acid2) and Microsoft isn't. If everybody followed the standards, it would be much simpler. I'm not sure about XP, but IE7 with Vista is the only browser I've ever used that has never let a trojan into my computer. Anecdotes don't make evidence. You're a fairly high-risk person (traffic exchanges aren't exactly the best thing to do), so I suppose an antivirus software is in order anyways. However, statistics suggest Firefox is the lead here (well, really, Opera is, but this is between Firefox and IE). I don't think a new interface is necessarily a bad one. If software companies avoided change, we all would still be using a command interface. That's quite true, but that's not what I said. Microsoft introduced a new interface into Vista, and then it came up with a totally different one for Internet Explorer. Consistency is a good thing. I actually think IE7 has the best implementation of tabs. When you first open Firefox, it doesn't even look like it supports tabbed browsing. I had to open the help menu to figure out how to open a new tab. With IE7, you can easily open a new tab. My favorite tab feature in IE7 is the ability to see what is happening in all tabs at once. There's an open bug in Firefox to get the New Tab button in by default, somewhere visible. I do like the DOM inspector, which is a main reason I keep Firefox on my computer. As a sidenote: seen FireBug? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 There's an open bug in Firefox to get the New Tab button in by default, somewhere visible. I do agree with this. I have the New Tab button right next to the Home button, and it comes in handy quite a lot. My main gripe with IE7's tabs is that they're so huge - I just want them to be nicely lined up, out the way without taking up a fair proportion of my viewing area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herme3 Posted December 12, 2006 Author Share Posted December 12, 2006 traffic exchanges aren't exactly the best thing to do Why do you say that? They are very effective at bringing more visitors to your web sites. The safety of the exchanges really depends on who is operating them. I carefully monitor all of the sites submitted to my exchange, to make sure my members do not get infected with any trojans. There are always risks, but then again there is the risk of a hacker putting a trojan into any site. However, statistics suggest Firefox is the lead here. Has there really been any good testing using IE7 and Vista, or are these statistics from IE6? That's quite true, but that's not what I said. Microsoft introduced a new interface into Vista, and then it came up with a totally different one for Internet Explorer. Consistency is a good thing. The colors don't match very well, but I believe the interfaces have similar layouts. As a sidenote: seen FireBug? No, I've never seen this before. Thanks for the link, Cap'n. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan2here Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Vista is more secure than XP, esspecally the 64 bit eddition. IE7 on XP vs Firefox 2 on XP is a fair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 The 64 bit version is secure in the same way a wireless n (as opposed to g or b) home network is more secure. No one has it, it's not compatible with anything, and no one wants to deal with it But we won't know how secure Vista is until months after it comes out and we all get to bang on it for a while. Probably is. The fact is 90% of people will be using Vista in a year, whether it sucks or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Why do you say that? They are very effective at bringing more visitors to your web sites. The safety of the exchanges really depends on who is operating them. I carefully monitor all of the sites submitted to my exchange, to make sure my members do not get infected with any trojans. There are always risks, but then again there is the risk of a hacker putting a trojan into any site. The question is: is getting more traffic the same as having more people interested in your content? Frankly, all you need to have a successful website is interesting content and time to dedicate, and a traffic exchange will mostly bring people who aren't interested. I'm betting the visitor->loyal visitor conversion rate is pretty bad. Has there really been any good testing using IE7 and Vista, or are these statistics from IE6? http://secunia.com/product/12366/?task=statistics http://secunia.com/product/12434/?task=statistics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herme3 Posted December 14, 2006 Author Share Posted December 14, 2006 The question is: is getting more traffic the same as having more people interested in your content? Frankly, all you need to have a successful website is interesting content and time to dedicate, and a traffic exchange will mostly bring people who aren't interested. I'm betting the visitor->loyal visitor conversion rate is pretty bad. Well, there will be some people who do not have any interest in your content. However, there may be many people out there who would be interested, and a traffic exchange is a great way to bring them to your site. The great thing about traffic exchanges is that you can bring thousands of different visitors to your site every day. There is a good chance that some of those people would be interested in your site. It is slightly similar to showing an advertisement on TV. Anyway, I guess I'm getting off-topic. I'll create a new thread about traffic exchanges in General Discussion. http://secunia.com/product/12366/?task=statistics http://secunia.com/product/12434/?task=statistics Thanks for the links. It looks like there haven't been very many security issues found in either browser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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