gene Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I have read in a book of facts. That the fourth state of matter is plasma. But what actually is plasma? I need some enlightenment. And one more question. What is water retention? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Let's see if I remember correct... Plasma is a theoretical state of matter above the three fundamental ones. It is found in the cores of stars and breaks down beyond regognizable atoms to subatomic particles. I also remember hearing of a fifth state but don't recall much about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmon Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Plasma consists of a colection of free moving electrons and ions ( atoms that have lost electrons ). Constant energy is needed to strip electrons from atoms to make the plasma otherwise it will "recombine" into a gas. Ordinary solids, liquids, and gases are both electricaaly neutral and/or too cool or dense to be in a plasma state. Water retention is exactly what it sounds like.. Retained water. Water kept in the body. Oh.. and women dont like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I seem to have been on the right track. Any ideas on that fifth state? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Emmon said in post #3 :Plasma consists of a colection of free moving electrons and ions ( atoms that have lost electrons ). Constant energy is needed to strip electrons from atoms to make the plasma otherwise it will "recombine" into a gas. But why will it recombine to become a gas. retention is exactly what it sounds like.. Retained water. Water kept in the body. Oh.. and women dont like it But why does water retention occur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmon Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 its the process of the states solid > liquid > gas > plasma depending on how much energy the particles have determines their state. A why for water retention? at a guess i would say because it will allow the body to go longer without water, that or in the case of females.. water will be available for the child while its in her body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 re combine it will return to a gaseous state b/c as with all matter, balance is concerned. an atom of fluorine wants to gain one more valence electron in its outer shell to become stable. All atoms want stability b/c it is the general tendency of all matter, it is searching for the easiest most unrestricted path it can find without being active.... so to speak. Its the reason lightning doesnt travel straight, and its the reason diffusion occurs. Oxygen occurs in nature bonded to another atom of itself b/c again, it is more stable and bonding with another atom suffices its need to fulfill its outer energy level. Now, when an atom is stable, for instance helium, it requires much more energy for its first initial ionization b/c simply put, it is more stable. so to support what was said, if there are ions, to prevent them from returning to a nuetrally charged atom, energy is needed to stop them from doing what is unrestricted, and that is finding a partner to gain or lose electrons with, accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iglak Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 i found this on a quick search 1) Bose-Einstein condensates exist in a weird condition where all the atoms attain the same quantum-mechanical state. Although it exists only within a whisker of absolute zero, the condensate may some day be used to make atomic lasers or super-accurate clocks. 2) Solids are materials with a definite volume and shape. They resist forces that tend to deform them: think ice, steel, or your computer screen. 3) Liquids are relatively incompressible materials that take the shape of their containers and have a free surface, but do not expand indefinitely: think liquid water, beer or soda. 4) Gases expand to fill their containers, and usually have relatively low density: think steam, oxygen and laughing gas. 5) Plasmas are ionized (electrically charged) gases with a similar number of positive and negative charges: think arc welding, fluorescent lights, and the sun. ... there ya go. basic descriptions and examples of each so, technically plasma is the fifth state, and the newest one is the first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 So can we say that lightning is in the plasma state ? OOPs. I forgot how lighting formed... But ya i think lightning is another example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Heh, does quantum mechanics really exist i thought it was only a theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 to put it in very basic and loose terms, think of ordinary Fire. It`s created by chemical energy releasing large amounts of HEAT, enough heat infact that it causes gasses to glow (you see that as flame). now think of these gasses being stimulated into glowing, but NOT by using HEAT, but by using Electricity instead. interestingly enough, each element in the periodic table, gives off it`s own unique color when stimulated. you`ll have seen this in colored fireworks. have you ever seen the bright yellow colored fireworks? well that color is made from Sodium Ions being heated. and you`ve also seen the yellow colored street lamps at night, that`s also Sodium Ions. the only difference is, the firework is HEAT stimulated, the lamps are Electricaly stimulated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Plasmas are conductive assemblies of charged particles, neutrals and fields that exhibit collective effects. Further, plasmas carry electrical currents and generate magnetic fields. Plasmas are the most common form of matter, comprising more than 99% of the visible universe. Plasmas are radically multiscale in two senses: (1) most plasma systems involve electrodynamics coupling across micro-, meso- and macroscale and (2) plasma systems occur over most of the physically possible ranges in space, energy and density scales. As solids Primary natural system is condensed matter, compact (nuclear), liquids PNS is fluid (Navier-Stokes) systems and Plasma's PNS are electromagnetic (Maxwell-Boltzmann) systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Hmmm... If you actualy look at the level of the question and question(s) in other posts, you`ll note that a "Technical" answer allbeit correct, isn`t the one to be given just yet. the "Keep It Simple" principal applies here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 Thanks for the post iglak. The Bose-Einstein one wans't what I was thinking of though. I looked through my old chemistry notes this morning and found: "Plasma- a state of matter found in stars, space, and the inside of flourescent lights. In this state, atoms are torn apart into smaller pieces. Neutron star- A fifth state of matter about which little is known." I don't know that the teacher was the most trustworthy source on this so I want to know if anyone has ever heard of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 a state of matter found in stars and flourescent tubes yes in "space" well that`s a bit ambiguos, so I`ll leave that alone the Fifth state? Never heard of that one ever??? that isn`t to say it`s not possible or true, just that I`ve never heard of such a beastie and I`m likely to have done on my "travels" also for those that may NOT know, Plasmas are not always HOT, there are cooler varieties too, it all depends on the gas used and the electron displacement in its Ionisation levels, 1`st, 2`nd, 3`rd etc... ALSO... the colors that are emited during this displacement, are what`s used in Spectum analysis, (as seen in forensics and metalurgy etc..) a sample material is taken, then blasted by an electric arc or laser ablation, and the resultant color given off is then split into it`s component colors and then compared to known materials. so if it gives off alot of Yellow color, it`s a safe bet it has some Sodium in it etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 that sounds a fraction more difficult than i think it needs to be. when an atom is exposed to a form of energy, its valence electrons can jump form one energy level to another. While the energy is being absorbed by the electrons, they can jump up to another shell. However, when the energy is taken away, it falls back down to proceedingly lower shells. When this happens, it gives off that energy in the form of electromagnetic energy, aka, light. The frequency, and wavelength associated with balmer, paschen, type changes exhibits the appropriate light. i cant type out the equation here, but it is a very useful tool as well to determine if a lightwave may even be visible. at least.... thats what i believe u were saying altho i may have been wrong and merely complicated this matter even more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted December 2, 2003 Share Posted December 2, 2003 I thought YT explained it very well extremely so, when commenting on Ionization because that does represent plasma on the level that what needed, my explanation was slightly to advanced…… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Bose-Einstein condensates? What would that be like? Plasma from things entering the atmosphere is easy to understand but what is this other type of matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I MAY be wrong here, but that sounds like refference to "St.Elmos Fire"? that also is a Plasma, and generated by electricity from frictional accumulation of charged particles. sometimes known as "Ball Lightning" and responsible for many alleged UFO sightings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudde Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Hades said in post #16 :However, when the energy is taken away, it falls back down to proceedingly lower shells. the energy is not taken away, it is just stopped. The atom will throw the extra energy away we're not going to have a poll on everone's favorite state of matter too are we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 I'm voting for plasma. edit -- NOPE!! BECs have strange properties with many possible applications in future technologies. They can slow light down to the residential speed limit, flow without friction, and demonstrate the weirdest elements of quantum mechanics on a scale anyone can see. They are effectively superatoms, groups of atoms that behave as one. http://www.strangehorizons.com/2001/20011210/bose-einstein.shtml Is that cool or what? edit again -- When the atoms get to the point where only ground state atoms are left, they coalesce into a Bose-Einstein Condensate, which behaves like a superatom. The first condensate consisted of 2000 atoms; some condensates have been created that are the size of a dime (several million atoms), but still behave as one giant atom. !!! The size of a dime !!! Think that could have been the source of the big bang? Supercooled +0.00000000001k universe condences into a giant BEC? Perhaps most interestingly, BECs have been used to slow the speed of light to a crawl -- from 186,282 miles per second (3x10<SUP>8</SUP> m/s) in a vacuum to 38 miles per hour (17 m/s) in a sodium BEC. Rad. .... Just read the article okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted December 4, 2003 Author Share Posted December 4, 2003 heh guys, found some pretty cool links. Check it out. About PLasma: http://fusedweb.pppl.gov/CPEP/Chart.html About Bose-Einstein Condensate: http://jilawww.colorado.edu/bec/JILABEChome_nonflash.html Enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apollo2011 Posted December 14, 2003 Share Posted December 14, 2003 So the Plasma we are talking about in this thread is the same Plasma they use in new HDTV displays? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted December 14, 2003 Author Share Posted December 14, 2003 Should be... i'm not to sure too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gene Posted December 14, 2003 Author Share Posted December 14, 2003 i think it uses the same principle about plasma. Yup. i think that's my guess. And so, that is how they got their name, Plasma TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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