Overpopulation

[Hades]

anyone have thoughts on this? Anyone concerned? Seems were more concerned with our gas reservations than the current population spike.

[silkworm]

Don't worry. The sooner oil runs out the better. We can readily produce natural gas (or as I like to call, termite honey), but I'd rather use nongreenhouse gas emitting sources. We can use ethanol to run our cars until we get a clue.

 

High gas prices are good too (as a result of overpopulation) if it makes people drive less, and if that's driving less to the fast food joint. I hope the oil companies make gas $10 a gallon. It may save us some stress. The only bad thing about that is it (gas prices) is the effect on the working poor, of which I am one, except for the working part.

 

Food, we're still okay. But probably the effect I'm most concerned about is that we'll simply have more ignorant people tearing up the ecosytem, with no thought, remorse, or chance for prevention.

[deltanova]

Don't worry. The sooner oil runs out the better. We can readily produce natural gas (or as I like to call' date=' termite honey), but I'd rather use nongreenhouse gas emitting sources. We can use ethanol to run our cars until we get a clue.

 

High gas prices are good too (as a result of overpopulation) if it makes people drive less, and if that's driving less to the fast food joint. I hope the oil companies make gas $10 a gallon. It may save us some stress. The only bad thing about that is it (gas prices) is the effect on the working poor, of which I am one, except for the working part.

 

Food, we're still okay. But probably the effect I'm most concerned about is that we'll simply have more ignorant people tearing up the ecosytem, with no thought, remorse, or chance for prevention.[/quote']

 

and that is (sort of) turning a frown upside down XD

[mike90]

I almost wish they would just pass a law where if once you have say 2 or 3 kids they just have you sterilized. Prolly sounds a little 1984 ish to some people but its starting to get out of hand. If people had just a little more common sense and didn't take family planning lessons from watching the Waltons we would be alright.

[silkworm]

I almost wish they would just pass a law where if once you have say 2 or 3 kids they just have you sterilized. Prolly sounds a little 1984 ish to some people but its starting to get out of hand. If people had just a little more common sense and didn't take family planning lessons from watching the Waltons we would be alright.

 

Screw that. What they should do is make everyone take a test with really basic math, physics, chemistry, biology, and geology, and if you don't score above a certain level your reproductive organs are destroyed. We just need less of the belligerently ignorant.

[abskebabs]

I almost wish they would just pass a law where if once you have say 2 or 3 kids they just have you sterilized.

I'll probably sound optimistic saying this but I don't think this is necessary at all. As the world economy grows and living standards across the world do improve gradually[often frustatingly slowly due to poor governance, rampant corruption and political instabillity], population growth will start to slow. It is already doing so in developed countries and we are ending up with ageing populations.

[-Demosthenes-]

I'll probably sound optimistic saying this but I don't think this is necessary at all. As the world economy grows and living standards across the world do improve gradually[often frustatingly slowly due to poor governance, rampant corruption and political instabillity'], population growth will start to slow. It is already doing so in developed countries and we are ending up with ageing populations.

 

He's right, overpopulation is another alarmist misconception. The US's fertility rate has moved to barely replacement, some states are even decreasing in population. Western Europe is annually losing population, countries that are not industrialized yet will have higher fertility rates until they industrialize, in which their fertility rates will drop, and population will level off.

 

In theory, when all countries have been industrialized and move into the post-industrial phase the world should be losing population as a whole. But that will not be for a very, very long time.

[AzurePhoenix]

Screw that. What they should do is make everyone take a test with really basic math, physics, chemistry, biology, and geology, and if you don't score above a certain level your reproductive organs are destroyed. We just need less of the belligerently ignorant.

I'd say that's quite rash. People have more to offer than being smart. Besdies, who wants to come down in four thousand years after their time-ship malfucntions and find themselves trapped on the "Planet of the Socially Awkward Asthmatic Nerds"?

[Edward Duffy]

I'd say that's quite rash. People have more to offer than being smart. Besdies, who wants to come down in four thousand years after their time-ship malfucntions and find themselves trapped on the "Planet of the Socially Awkward Asthmatic Nerds[/i']"?

 

Exactly. Geeks generally don't like getting their hands dirty for a living. Somebody's got to do the grunt work.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

You're making the stereotype that smart people are nerds or geeks, and that isn't true. You can have a smart person that works hard. In fact, if you get rid of the ignorant people, you'll end up with a lot more hard-working smart people.

[silkworm]

I'd say that's quite rash. People have more to offer than being smart. Besdies, who wants to come down in four thousand years after their time-ship malfucntions and find themselves trapped on the "Planet of the Socially Awkward Asthmatic Nerds"?

 

Exactly. Geeks generally don't like getting their hands dirty for a living. Somebody's got to do the grunt work.

 

I'm talking really basic stuff. I mean really basic. Like:

 

"The sun is A) God B) The largest lightbulb known to man C) A blimp that caught fire D) A star."

 

I'm more interested in weeding out the agressively ignorant than I am simply perserving the "smart." Of course, those with mental disabilities will be exused, but the fundies will not be.

 

This is an effort for a perfect world.

[bascule]

He's right, overpopulation is another alarmist misconception.

 

The population of our planet grows to fill the available resources, which continue to increase with improving technology.

 

Also, take the available land surface of earth:

 

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/DanielChen.shtml

 

and divide by the number of people on earth:

 

[math]{1.5 x 10^8 km^2 \over{6,500,000,000 people}} = {23,076 m^2 \over{person}}[/math]

 

Or approximately 5.7 acres per person.

[silkworm]

Or approximately 5.7 acres per person.

 

Let's not get crazy. How much of that land supports vegetation?

[1veedo]

Locally, at least for the US, we aren't having enough babbies. All the baby boomers are going to retire and sit on their lazy buts while everybody else has to work for them. This wasn't a problem when there were 8 people working for one retired person. Not that I'm against it (don't meen to sound rude), I just think it's a problem.

[Steph]

I'm talking really basic stuff. I mean really basic. Like:

 

"The sun is A) God B) The largest lightbulb known to man C) A blimp that caught fire D) A star."

 

I'm more interested in weeding out the agressively ignorant than I am simply perserving the "smart." Of course' date=' those with mental disabilities will be exused, but the fundies will not be.

 

This is an effort for a perfect world.[/quote']

 

this question is not a test of intelligence. it's a test of knowledge. it is of course what you are talking about (weeding out the ignorants) but I wanted to point this out.

 

now, i'm appalled by the whole idea and by the fact that no one else thinks this is barbaric (or more accurately hitlerish). you don't go around sterilizing a group of people on such a basis. whatever the answer that you have, realize that there IS a chance that you are wrong (it may be small but it is there)

[-Demosthenes-]

now, i'm appalled by the whole idea and by the fact that no one else thinks this is barbaric (or more accurately hitlerish). you don't go around sterilizing a group of people on such a basis. whatever the answer that you have, realize that there IS a chance that you are wrong (it may be small but it is there)

 

Localized overpopulation, like in India, will happen. World wide overpopulation, will not.

 

Just more than half of the world's countries are even growing in population anymore, the rest are at replacement rate or losing population. The median fertility rate is Columbia at 2.56, which is just .46 above that of replacement. Allowing for fertility rates to drop due to industrialization and post-industrialization, the world population should stabilize eventually, and probably start even further in the future start to drop.

[RyanJ]

We had a debate about this in Geography once.

 

Could therebe a ink between high populations and increased dissease? Probably.

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[silkworm]

Localized overpopulation, like in India, will happen. World wide overpopulation, will not.

 

They actually put on their coins in... Bangladesh?.... a picture that tries to tell people to only have 2 kids.

 

It's true, we could all stand shoulder to shoulder on the face of the earth, and we're far from that, but we need the land to provide resources for everyone. And it's hard to get resources out of land people are standing shoulder to shoulder on.

 

now, i'm appalled by the whole idea and by the fact that no one else thinks this is barbaric (or more accurately hitlerish). you don't go around sterilizing a group of people on such a basis. whatever the answer that you have, realize that there IS a chance that you are wrong (it may be small but it is there)

 

I enjoyed your response, thank you for reading my post.

 

I very much see your point. But the fact is that if we have somebody who is ignorant of the fact that we call the sun a star is useless to the earth and should be one of the first to go if cuts need to be made. I mean, we're only talking about the study of reality here. It's not like I'm asking them what actor with Parkinson's disease played Alex P. Keaton on TV's Family Ties?

 

Of course they'd all know that the answer is Michael J. Fox. But by knowing that it doesn't show that they have any usefull purpose at all.

[nccavediver]

Anyone ever read Daniel Quinn's fictions Ishmael or The Story of B?

[-Demosthenes-]

Could therebe a ink between high populations and increased dissease? Probably.

 

Maybe, but there is however a definite and dramatic link between economic transformation and fertility rate, which means indirectly: population. As to world industrializes fertility rates shrink, and eventually so will population.

 

It's true' date=' we could all stand shoulder to shoulder on the face of the earth, and we're far from that, but we need the land to provide resources for everyone. And it's hard to get resources out of land people are standing shoulder to shoulder on.

[/quote']

 

I'm not sure what you are saying, but if you are saying the world will soon contain enough people so that we will all have to stand shoulder to shoulder to fit, then I'd have to disagree. It borders on ridiculousness, the population of the US will never increase greatly from what it is now, the worlds population is on the way to industrialization and lower fertility rates. There is absolutely no reason to believe that we will ever have to stand "shoulder to shoulder" to fit on the earth.

 

But the fact is that if we have somebody who is ignorant of the fact that we call the sun a star is useless to the earth and should be one of the first to go if cuts need to be made.

 

"Cuts" will not have to be made, such an idea is ridiculous.

[silkworm]

I'm not sure what you are saying, but if you are saying the world will soon contain enough people so that we will all have to stand shoulder to shoulder to fit, then I'd have to disagree. It borders on ridiculousness, the population of the US will never increase greatly from what it is now, the worlds population is on the way to industrialization and lower fertility rates. There is absolutely no reason to believe that we will ever have to stand "shoulder to shoulder" to fit on the earth.

 

I was agreeing with you that we are far from having people standing shoulder to shoulder on the face of the earth, but I was also making the point that we need land to provide resources for these people. So, reaching our population limit for earth will arrive far before we reach the point of standing shoulder to shoulder.

[mike90]

Off topic here but first to azure: hey I AM a socially akward asthmatic whatcha tryin to say! and to demosthenes i just got the postal service cd and they are awesome. Oh and im still for the sterilization thing. Does anyone NEED to have more then 3 children? Seriously

[-Demosthenes-]

I was agreeing with you that we are far from having people standing shoulder to shoulder on the face of the earth, but I was also making the point that we need land to provide resources for these people. So, reaching our population limit for earth will arrive far before we reach the point of standing shoulder to shoulder.

 

We won't even reach our population limit for the earth.

[Steph]

Off topic here but first to azure: hey I AM a socially akward asthmatic whatcha tryin to say! and to demosthenes i just got the postal service cd and they are awesome. Oh and im still for the sterilization thing. Does anyone NEED to have more then 3 children? Seriously

 

actually some people do. and its the whole reason why industrialization (with all that comes with it) reduces birthrate dramatically. in certains areas of the world, having a small army of kids is the only way for a family to survives. Not only is the child mortality incredibly high, but also, the children, when they grow up (7 or 8 years) can be of tremendous help to the family (growing or earning food). Most people do not have 10 kids because they really want to, but because they have to.

[JohnB]

What they should do is make everyone take a test with really basic math, physics, chemistry, biology, and geology, and if you don't score above a certain level your reproductive organs are destroyed. We just need less of the belligerently ignorant.

I just love how when someone draws a eugenics line, they make sure that they're on the right side of it.

 

So the physically fit but dull person gets sterilized, but the mentally incompetent don't. How long do you think that situation will last?

 

Silk, you want to copy Hitler go right ahead, but I and others like me will fight any such idea with any and all means at our disposal. Disgust at this idea was one of the reasons for WW II, apparently the lesson wasn't learnt.