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Tully_Beaver

[b]John:[/b] People that drive SUVs are so wastefull...

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Fred: Yes they are john. You coming out on your 4 wheeler this weekend?

 

John:Of course I am Fred. You coming with me to watch the indie500?[/b]

 

Fred:Yep. How was wakebaording last weekend?

 

John:Great we wakeboarded all day long.

 

Fred: Why is it SUV drivers are wastefull again?

 

John:Oh..it's because the vehicles they drive require more gas to run on than my hybrid. We might both travel the same distance but the SUV driver has burned near twice as much gas as I have...thus being wastefull

 

Fred:Why do they drive such big cars John? Just to be wastefull? or is it..........just................just.................just............

 

John ..Just because they want to Fred and can afford to. Therfore we must hate them for it. It is because of them that we have deal with global warming etc.

 

Why do you think Fred and John go 4 wheeling and wakeboarding or enjoy watching the indie500?

 

Could it be because they want to and can afford to?

 

 

Hypocricy=False pretension to personal qualities or principles not actually possessed.

 

 

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16887

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You're strawmanning again.

 

(Creating a position that you can easily attack, rather than attacking the position that we're providing)

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You're strawmanning again.

 

(Creating a position that you can easily attack' date=' rather than attacking the position that we're providing)[/quote']

 

The position that you're providing is.......

 

Oh we posted it 100 times in that last you just didn't read it.

 

I did read it, understood it, and counter attacked it. you have no arguement...unless one of you make a valid arguement in the next post that shows your stance....you have no arguement.

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Fred: Yes they are john. You coming out on your 4 wheeler this weekend?

 

John:Of course I am Fred. You coming with me to watch the indie500?[/b]

 

Fred:Yep. How was wakebaording last weekend?

 

John:Great we wakeboarded all day long.

 

Fred: Why is it SUV drivers are wastefull again?

 

John:Oh..it's because the vehicles they drive require more gas to run on than my hybrid. We might both travel the same distance but the SUV driver has burned near twice as much gas as I have...thus being wastefull

 

Fred:Why do they drive such big cars John? Just to be wastefull? or is it..........just................just.................just............

 

John ..Just because they want to Fred and can afford to. Therfore we must hate them for it. It is because of them that we have deal with global warming etc.

 

Why do you think Fred and John go 4 wheeling and wakeboarding or enjoy watching the indie500?

 

Could it be because they want to and can afford to?

 

 

Hypocricy=False pretension to personal qualities or principles not actually possessed.

 

 

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=16887

 

this is a inductive fallacy (I think). You are assuming that because Fred and John like to go 4 wheeling and wakeboarding that they are hypocrits. First of all, you haven't presented any information that these activities (which are usually done only once in a while, anyway) comsume more fuel then SUV's.

 

Just because you think that SUVs are wasteful in terms of fuel consumption, does not mean that you'd be a hypocrite by useing fuel.

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The position that you're providing is.......

 

Oh we posted it 100 times in that last you just didn't read it.

 

I did read it' date=' understood it, and counter attacked it. you have no arguement...unless one of you make a valid arguement in the next post that shows your stance....you have no arguement.[/quote']

 

No, Cap'n doesn't have an argument because your argument isn't based off of real data. You have made some sort of sweeping conclusions about the hypocrasy of people who use fossil fuels, but these conclusions are not based off of reality.

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Exactly, ecoli.

 

Tully, you never counter-attacked it. You strawmanned by attacking an argument that we never presented.

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No, Cap'n doesn't have an argument because your argument isn't based off of real data..

Oh ok I get it now. Now I see why you people can't debate or discuss anything. Because you need to everything presented to you in the scientific method, even if that is someones opinion, it must be presented in a scientific way with expirements having been carried out etc. Right.

 

 

You have made some sort of sweeping conclusions about the hypocrasy of people who use fossil fuels, but these conclusions are not based off of reality.

No. The hypocricy of people giving SUV drivers a hard time for "wasting" fuel.

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Oh ok I get it now. Now I see why you people can't debate or discuss anything. Because you need to everything presented to you in the scientific method, even if that is someones opinion, it must be presented in a scientific way with expirements having been carried out etc. Right.

No. It's just we prefer that you don't use a load of logical fallacies and made-up situations.

 

No. The hypocricy of people giving SUV drivers a hard time for "wasting" fuel.

I think the real criticism of SUV drivers is not because they're wasting fuel, but because they're using a lot more fuel then they really have to. They could have just used a Prius--but there are no hybrid 4-wheelers and NASCARs.

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this is a inductive fallacy (I think). You are assuming that because Fred and John like to go 4 wheeling and wakeboarding that they are hypocrits. First of all' date=' you haven't presented any information that these activities (which are usually done only once in a while, anyway) comsume more fuel then SUV's.

 

Just because you think that SUVs are wasteful in terms of fuel consumption, does not mean that you'd be a hypocrite by useing fuel.[/quote']

LOL...just keep the fancy names coming to support the fact that you can't argue this.

 

Fred and John use fuel for recreational use every weekend.

 

i don't know how many aiplanes fly each day

 

or how many nascar races there are everyweek....or motoX races, or go kart races, or freestyle motoX races there are, or monster truck shows, but Fred and John watch all of them on TV and don't protest them at all.

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Oh ok I get it now. Now I see why you people can't debate or discuss anything. Because you need to everything presented to you in the scientific method, even if that is someones opinion, it must be presented in a scientific way with expirements having been carried out etc. Right.

 

Why should anyone waste their time debating situations that don't actually exist? You claim that there are other activites that waste fossil fuels, just like driving SUVs do, but you don't provide any evidence that this is true.

 

No. The hypocricy of people giving SUV drivers a hard time for "wasting" fuel.

 

But you have no evidence that this is, in fact hypocritical. Sure, I know that you say it's your opinion, but I recomend that you still base your opinions off of facts.

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I think the real criticism of SUV drivers is not because they're wasting fuel, but because they're using a lot more fuel then they really have to. They could have just used a Prius--but there are no hybrid 4-wheelers and NASCARs.

Thanks Cap'n Rersmmat. I appreciat this post.

 

Why should they not be allowed to use more gas than they need?

 

but there are no hybrid 4-wheelers and NASCARs..
Yes. But isn't there....not nascar racing? Or even riding a 125cc off road bike than a 350? Or kite surfing instead of wakeboarding?

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LOL...just keep the fancy names coming to support the fact that you can't argue this.

 

Or maybe you just accuse him of this because you can't support your argument, and must resort to personal attacks...

 

Fred and John use fuel for recreational use every weekend.

 

Doesn't make a difference, you're still not giving us REAL numbers. Do Fred and John actually exist anyway?

 

i don't know how many aiplanes fly each day

 

not our problem. you're presenting the argument, you have the burden of proof.

 

or how many nascar races there are everyweek....or motoX races, or go kart races, or freestyle motoX races there are, or monster truck shows, but Fred and John watch all of them on TV and don't protest them at all.

 

this is inconsequential. and I'm sure it's a logical fallacy. You ascribing properties of wasteful SUV's to an unrelated activity.

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Thanks Cap'n Rersmmat. I appreciat this post.

 

Why should they not be allowed to use more gas than they need?

 

Yes. But isn't there....not nascar racing? Or even riding a 125cc off road bike than a 350? Or kite surfing instead of wakeboarding?

 

you can't force people to conserve fuel... I suppose the gov't could, but I see no evidence of that happening soon.

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Why should anyone waste their time debating situations that don't actually exist? You claim that there are other activites that waste fossil fuels' date=' just like driving SUVs do, but you don't provide any evidence that this is true.

 

 

 

But you have no evidence that this is, in fact hypocritical. Sure, I know that you say it's your opinion, but I recomend that you still base your opinions off of facts.[/quote']

 

The only facts I have, are along the lines of, I hear people protesting SUV drivers all day long. I have never once seen or heard about anyone protesting fuel use at a nascar race.

 

Lets just say; That no other source of fossil fuel burning burns as much fuel as an SUV, for it's specific job/ task (yeah take an airplane at per passenger value). If a person driving an SUV is not allowed to burn that extra bit of gas driving to work and back just for the sheer pleasure of it, why should someone be allowed to race around on a jet ski, go wake boarding, race a car with a big engine etc. for the sheer pleasure of it?

 

Hypocrisy.

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Lets just say; That no other source of fossil fuel burning burns as much fuel as an SUV' date=' for it's specific job/ task (yeah take an airplane at per passenger value). If a person driving an SUV is not allowed to burn that extra bit of gas driving to work and back just for the sheer pleasure of it, why should someone be allowed to race around on a jet ski, go wake boarding, race a car with a big engine etc. for the sheer pleasure of it?

 

Hypocrisy.[/quote']

 

Ok... assuming that is correct, and people are hypocritical in their denunciation of SUVs... so what? People have the right to be hypocrites, what do you propose to do about it?

 

In other words, what is the point of this thread?

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In other words, what is the point of this thread?

The point of this threa was try and try again to get someone to admit this...........

Ok... assuming [/b']that is correct, and people are hypocritical in their denunciation of SUVs... ??

Thank you ecoli. And thanks you too Cap'n Refsmmat. I totaly understand the analness of phi for all now. Seriously thanks. Because I just thought you were all a bunch of up tight, anal etc ers. I see now that to be taken seriosuly here, or even to be invloved in a fair discussion, i muct have some kind of evidence some numebrs of some sort for you all to punch into an equation (I can hear phi for all now "well that's how science works).

 

so what? People have the right to be hypocrites, what do you propose to do about it??

Nothing at all. These people can make themselve look like fools all they want.

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Thank you ecoli. And thanks you too Cap'n Refsmmat. I totaly understand the analness of phi for all now. Seriously thanks. Because I just thought you were all a bunch of up tight, anal etc ers. I see now that to be taken seriosuly here, or even to be invloved in a fair discussion, i muct have some kind of evidence some numebrs of some sort for you all to punch into an equation (I can hear phi for all now "well that's how science works).

 

Science requires proof, so you can't put too much stock into assuming something is true, just because it proves your point. You have to provide arguments based on data, not the other way around.

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Science requires proof, so you can't put too much stock into assuming [/i']something is true, just because it proves your point. You have to provide arguments based on data, not the other way around.

lol....Ok "ecoli." I've made my point.

 

I would like to say that proving someone to be a hypocrite is not a scientifc experiment.

 

Next you'll be wanting to lay Fred and John out on a table to perform all kinds of dodgey experiments on them just to prove if they are racist or not...lol

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No. The hypocricy of people giving SUV drivers a hard time for "wasting" fuel.

 

 

you havent shown that those other activities WASTE fuel. one could argue that driving an SUV wastes fuel because it burns more gas for the same result, but there is no more fuel efficient way to go wakeboarding, you have to burn that gas to get the result you want.

 

and aside from any logic i could supply to tell you your wrong, it doesnt matter. as people are trying to explain to you, your not attacking a position that anyone was standing behind. you created your own, slightly different version of someones position and attacked that instead.

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Give me numbers and the sources form which they come. Moreover, what does it matter if some environmentalists are hypocritical. The point is that the vast majority of SUV drivers are simply being environmentally irresponsible. What does it matter who's criticizing them?

 

This isn't a debate. You've presented no thesis. What is it we're talking about again?

 

And for the love of Jebus, it's spelled "hypocrisy!"

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Fred and John use fuel for recreational use every weekend.

 

i don't know how many aiplanes fly each day

 

or how many nascar races there are everyweek....or motoX races' date=' or go kart races, or freestyle motoX races there are, or monster truck shows, but Fred and John watch all of them on TV and don't protest them at all.[/quote']

I think the real criticism of SUV drivers is not because they're wasting fuel, but because they're using a lot more fuel then they really have to. They could have just used a Prius--but there are no hybrid 4-wheelers and NASCARs.

There you go.

 

Why should they not be allowed to use more gas than they need?

Nobody said it shouldn't be allowed--it's just that in 25 years, we'd all like to still have fossil fuels. Using too much of them means we'll have less time with them around.

 

Yes. But isn't there....not nascar racing? Or even riding a 125cc off road bike than a 350? Or kite surfing instead of wakeboarding?

Now you're actually getting somewhere by providing a real argument.

NASCAR, I suppose, being entertainment, is different than a necessity (driving to work). Although you do bring up a good point; I think NASCAR is kind of dumb myself.

But many people will say that it's not as fun riding a 125cc dirt bike or whatever, because you can't go as fast. Not that I think this is fine (it's rather silly in my opinion) but they have an excuse. And kite surfing is dependent on the wind, so there's a valid reason to do wakeboarding with a motor.

 

 

The only facts I have' date=' are along the lines of, I hear people protesting SUV drivers all day long. I have never once seen or heard about anyone protesting fuel use at a nascar race.

 

Lets just say; That no other source of fossil fuel burning burns as much fuel as an SUV, for it's specific job/ task (yeah take an airplane at per passenger value). If a person driving an SUV is not allowed to burn that extra bit of gas driving to work and back just for the sheer pleasure of it, why should someone be allowed to race around on a jet ski, go wake boarding, race a car with a big engine etc. for the sheer pleasure of it?[/quote']

I don't think it's the sheer pleasure of SUVs that makes people buy them. It's the "bigger is better" mentality that many people seem to suffer from.

 

Thank you ecoli. And thanks you too Cap'n Refsmmat. I totaly understand the analness of phi for all now. Seriously thanks. Because I just thought you were all a bunch of up tight, anal etc ers. I see now that to be taken seriosuly here, or even to be invloved in a fair discussion, i muct have some kind of evidence some numebrs of some sort for you all to punch into an equation (I can hear phi for all now "well that's how science works).

Science isn't all about equations, you're mistaking it with physics.

 

Even if that was a joke, calling people anal isn't recommended if you want to stay here very long.

 

I would like to say that proving someone to be a hypocrite is not a scientifc experiment.

It requires evidence that isn't refuted.

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Give me numbers and the sources form which they come. Moreover, what does it matter if some environmentalists are hypocritical.]

The point of this post was nothing more than to get one of you to admit how this..." Lets just say; That no other source of fossil fuel burning burns as much fuel as an SUV, for it's specific job/ task (yeah take an airplane at per passenger value). If a person driving an SUV is not allowed to burn that extra bit of gas driving to work and back just for the sheer pleasure of it, why should someone be allowed to race around on a jet ski, go wake boarding, race a car with a big engine etc. for the sheer pleasure of it?

" is hypocrisy.

 

The point is that the vast majority of SUV drivers are simply being environmentally irresponsible. What does it matter who's criticizing them? .]
That might be your point. It's not mine.

 

 

 

And for the love of Jebus, [b']it's spelled "hypocrisy!"[/b]

 

 

For the love of who?...........lol

 

Oh by the way

 

hypocrasy

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you havent shown that those other activities WASTE fuel. one could argue that driving an SUV wastes fuel because it burns more gas for the same result, but there is no more fuel efficient way to go wakeboarding, you have to burn that gas to get the result you want..
There is kite surfing. But that's beside the point. If you have no probelm with someone driving a boat up and down a lake all day long because "There is no more fuel efficient way to go wakeboarding" then standing there and telling someone that because they are driving a vehicle that burns more fuel than yours to go the same distance (even though this person pays for the extra because they enjoy driving their vehicle why is it people wake board again?) then you are a hypocrite.

 

and aside from any logic i could supply to tell you your wrong, it doesnt matter. as people are trying to explain to you, your not attacking a position that anyone was standing behind. you created your own, slightly different version of someones position and attacked that instead.
Wrong about what?

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There is kite surfing. But that's beside the point. If you have no probelm with someone driving a boat up and down a lake all day long because "There is no more fuel efficient way to go wakeboarding" then standing there and telling someone that because they are driving a vehicle that burns more fuel than yours to go the same distance (even though this person pays for the extra because they enjoy driving their vehicle why is it people wake board again?) then you are a hypocrite.

No, wait a moment.

I don't think it's the sheer pleasure of SUVs that makes people buy them. It's the "bigger is better" mentality that many people seem to suffer from.

And I don't care if the person pays for the extra gas, as there's a finite amount of fuel on this planet and no amount of money will fix that.

 

And I don't wakeboard, either.

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Now you're actually getting somewhere by providing a real argument.

NASCAR' date=' I suppose, being entertainment, is different than a necessity (driving to work). Although you do bring up a good point; I think NASCAR is kind of dumb myself.

But many people will say that it's not as fun riding a 125cc dirt bike or whatever, because you can't go as fast. Not that I think this is fine (it's rather silly in my opinion) but they have an excuse. And kite surfing is dependent on the wind, so there's a valid reason to do wakeboarding with a motor.

 

 

I don't think it's the sheer pleasure of SUVs that makes people buy them. It's the "bigger is better" mentality that many people seem to suffer from.

[/quote']

Can you really make statements about why people buy SUVs? Where's your numbers?

I don't see a difference between paying for gas for you car to go to work and back and then paying a bit extra for your hobbie at the weekend, nascar, motoX etc. and paying for gas for your car to go to work and back and then paying a bit extra just because you enjoy riding in a big ole truck suv to work and back.

 

Even if that was a joke, calling people anal isn't recommended if you want to stay here very long..
I just felt in both of my threads he/she has been really condescending.

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