RyanJ Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 Inside a black hole - what would it be like? I know once you pass the event horizon you can never get out of the black hole , not unless you can cheat reality anyway. Anyway, I know at the heart of a black hole there is the quantim singularity; the point at which all our laws of physics break down. Does this apply to every law or could there be a set of laws that will work in the heart of a black hole? I have heared about quantum gravity but I can't find much information on it. Also, what about M-theory how would the strings and branes be affected by it? Would they also be oblivionised? How many dimensions does the event horizon cross, does it only extend into the third or forth dimension or can it pass still further into the other dimensions preposed in string theory? Does time have any meaning within a back hole? Black holes, too me, are one of the most facinating things about physics. I know asking the question of what is space and time like at the center of the hole has mo meaning because what space and time are change and are destroyed. If you could like two black holes together would you then get a wormhole? How would time be afected as you travel through it? I have so many questions One more question... what would ahppen if you created a black hole within a black hole? Any helps you can provide would be well recieved Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny8522003 Posted October 9, 2005 Share Posted October 9, 2005 If you fell into a black hole (and survived beyond the horizon) you'd see the entire future Universe flash before your eyes. Most of our laws would break down at the singularity, quantum mechanics may still hold though. Strings - no idea, ill leave that to the experts lol. I agree they are fascinating, but no-one really understand them. Maybe a wormhole could be formed, but i doubt anything would survive the trip without hitting the singularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 9, 2005 Author Share Posted October 9, 2005 Most of our laws would break down at the singularity' date=' quantum mechanics may still hold though. [/quote'] Curious - or maybe not. If quantum mechanics were to break down that could mean that you'd be able to measure both the speed and position of a particle at the same time, not that you'd ever be able to tell anyone about it. I suppose you'd have to go right to the singularity to get this t o ahppen though. I agree they are fascinating' date=' but no-one really understand them. Maybe a wormhole could be formed, but i doubt anything would survive the trip without hitting the singularity.[/quote'] I agree with that - a black hole is probably the most destructive thing in the universe. You'd have to pput a hole in space without a singularity is you want to travel through it... Otherwise the only place you'd end up is crushed to infinate smallness and most people would not want that... I wonder what it would look like? Time would move forward twards the center of the black hole, so everything would be seen to stream towards the singularity or what? How about a black hole within a black hole, could that happen? Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny8522003 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 You wouldnt see anything at all because no photons would ever get to your eyes because the gravity would be so strong. If two black holes came together, im pretty sure their masses would sum and you would get a bigger black hole. A black hole within a black hole would just merge together, id have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 If two black holes came together' date=' im pretty sure their masses would sum and you would get a bigger black hole. A black hole within a black hole would just merge together, id have thought.[/quote'] I must say that makes sence Cheers, thanks for the reply, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 This comes directly from my theory... I dont think a black hole is singularity.... I dont thing its even a hole.. It seems to me that it is a very dense pulsar type of object, a collapsed star that has enough gravity to slow down light enough that it can suck it back. So it has the appearence of a large black hole but I beleive it is a small collapsed star and only allows the light to travel so far away before it sucks it back. If you were able to get on that event horizen I think you would simply be peering inside the zone where light makes a U-turn back to the gravity source.. Im not sure what it would look like.. I guess it would be pretty damn bright since it would be like a white dwarf that has so much gravity light cant escape very far from it before turning around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyJoeCool Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 In theory, you could escape from a black hole... you just need to be 2 dimentions, and have no mass (and thus Gravety has no effect on you...) Just good luck making yourself 2D and living.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyLennigan Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The singularity causes physics to break down. since physics is dependant upon many variables and constants, i would assume that everything we know about physics would be different in a black hole. but, that said, we know it is possible for particles to escape due to quantum tunneling, though rare. the reason you can't find anything about quantum gravity is because the theory doesn't exist. physicists are working on it as we speak and one of the leading theories is M-theory, or commonly known as string theory, which ties together both quantum electrodynamics and general relativity into a theory of everything. the wildly different characteristics of a black hole would probably call for some strange 'string' characteristics, but every form of energy would have a different type of 'string', as you probably know. it might be that black holes are like a tear in the brane, and leak energy out. but that would be a theory based on a theory, and neither of them are provable at this point. as for how many dimensions the event horizon would cross, well i would have to assume at least 4. if string theory were correct, then all those dimensions as well. but there might be more dimensions interacting than even in normal space, who knows. at the center of a black hole, space-time warps inward on itself into an infinitely curving spiral. time has meaning, but it is so warped that you wouldn't know it still did. i don't know about a black hole inside another black hole. there could be a collision between two black holes that could possibly destroy both, or make them smaller. the only thing i can think of thats like two black holes is a rotating black hole. it has two event horizons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Tycho?] Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 This comes directly from my theory... I dont think a black hole is singularity.... I dont thing its even a hole.. It seems to me that it is a very dense pulsar type of object' date=' a collapsed star that has enough gravity to slow down light enough that it can suck it back. So it has the appearence of a large black hole but I beleive it is a small collapsed star and only allows the light to travel so far away before it sucks it back. If you were able to get on that event horizen I think you would simply be peering inside the zone where light makes a U-turn back to the gravity source.. Im not sure what it would look like.. I guess it would be pretty damn bright since it would be like a white dwarf that has so much gravity light cant escape very far from it before turning around.[/quote'] Ha, great theory. A black hole is not a hole. It is indeed a small, very massive collapsed star that prevents light from escaping it. On the event horizon light does not make U turn however, the event horizon is where light is trapped, not falling into the singularity, but never getting out either. It would not be a star however inside the singularity, way too small for that. Look up black hole on wikipedia if you want more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakuenso Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 does time slow down in a black hole? if so, does it reach a point where it has slowed so much that you never actually reach the center of the black hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
573v3 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I dont thing its even a hole..It seems to me that it is a very dense pulsar type of object, a collapsed star that has enough gravity to slow down light enough that it can suck it back. So it has the appearence of a large black hole but I beleive it is a small collapsed star and only allows the light to travel so far away before it sucks it back. we all know that it's just an old name that survived the newer theories If you were able to get on that event horizen I think you would simply be peering inside the zone where light makes a U-turn back to the gravity source.. Im not sure what it would look like.. I guess it would be pretty damn bright since it would be like a white dwarf that has so much gravity light cant escape very far from it before turning around. How would you "see" the light when it is drawn away from your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Think.. If light traveled 1000km from the surface for example. Here on earth we would never be able to detect the light or information that surgest from the matter conatained inside. If you went through imaginary bubble where the light eventually cant get any further away, you would see the "light" that is making it to the critical loss of velocity zone. It would look invisible untill you got close enough to it. That is based of my theory that light is particles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
573v3 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 That is based of my theory that light is particles. Again, nothing new here, we call them photons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkain101 Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Let me try that again. "that is based from my theory" Where in the theory light is particles and particles only which contain mass and are mass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 does time slow down in a black hole? if so, does it reach a point where it has slowed so much that you never actually reach the center of the black hole? Well, no. Because you have your own reference frame according to Relativity you would pass through the event horizon as normal but to ayone looking from the outside you would seem to be stuck on the surface of the event horizon as your light waves are pulled ever harder untill they take an infinte amount of time to escape, the point at which you seem to be stuck on the holes edge. In reality though you fall into the hole as normal. You could say as space is warped by the signularity, just as time is seen to go in a strait line, time and space go in a strait line to the singularity and thus there is no way to avoid it Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 This might be a bit off topic but; I've read in the newtonian booklet that black holes 'evaporate' by losing particles or radiation (i think) that appears out of no where (forget the name for them). How can these particles/radiation escape the black hole, if nothing can theoretically escape a black hole. How can a black hole deteriorate if nothing can escape them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 11, 2005 Author Share Posted October 11, 2005 This might be a bit off topic but; I've read in the newtonian booklet that black holes 'evaporate' by losing particles or radiation (i think) that appears out of no where (forget the name for them). How can these particles/radiation escape the black hole' date=' if nothing can theoretically escape a black hole. How can a black hole deteriorate if nothing can escape them?[/quote'] I belive you mean virtual particles. They can escape because they form just above the event horizon and so can escape given sufficient energy If that what you meant? Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyLennigan Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 This might be a bit off topic but; I've read in the newtonian booklet that black holes 'evaporate' by losing particles or radiation (i think) that appears out of no where (forget the name for them). How can these particles/radiation escape the black hole' date=' if nothing can theoretically escape a black hole. How can a black hole deteriorate if nothing can escape them?[/quote'] Hawking radiation. the theory doesn't really have any real evidence (only mathematical). also, it would take an extremely long time for a black hole to evaporate (longer than the universe has been around for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Ninja Posted October 19, 2005 Share Posted October 19, 2005 Black holes have been shown by Hawking (mathematically, naturally) to emit a very small amount of radiation. As I recall it's a bit of a side-effect from Heisenberg's uncertainty principle. Empty space cannot have zero energy in it, because we would then know the energy of it exactly (not allowed). So the universe is seething with 'virtual' particle-antiparticle pairs, which appear from nothing and return to nothing. Their existence has been indirectly measured with the casimir effect (put two plates really close together and they get pushed closer together, because more frequencies exist outside the plates than inside, and this can be measured). The event horizon of a black hole means that sometimes a particle-antiparticle pair will appear on different sides of the horizon. The one outside the horizon escapes, taking a little bit of the black hole's energy (and therefore mass) away. Wait around for a few orders of magnitude the current age of the universe, and black holes themselves will dissolve in a shower of gamma radiation. Black holes fascinate me - they seem to be an example of nature going 'wrong' - the event horizon is a little veil that nature throws over the singularity - 'sorry buddy, you can't look in here'. Staff only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 19, 2005 Author Share Posted October 19, 2005 Black holes fascinate me - they seem to be an example of nature going 'wrong' - the event horizon is a little veil that nature throws over the singularity - 'sorry buddy' date=' you can't look in here'. Staff only. [/quote'] Thats what facinates me - people always want to know what they simply can;t and have what they can't... There is also a debate as to weather a Singularity can exist outside of a black hole, if it can then I'd like to actually look at one of these things and find out how everything isnde it works I don't really see how its possible tough as anything that dense would naturally bend space into a black hole as far as I can see Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRU Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 this is a little of topic, but would a black hole even be visible? because no light escapes it, you wouldn't be able to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.MacSwell Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 this is a little of topic, but would a black hole even be visible? because no light escapes it, you wouldn't be able to see it. That's why they call it black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royston Posted October 22, 2005 Share Posted October 22, 2005 Probably already coverered, but you wouldn't notice any difference. You'd stretch with the frame you were in. To an outside observer you would seem broken up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airkyd Posted November 3, 2005 Share Posted November 3, 2005 i find this subject very interesting , even though i have little knowledge in this . i would say you would move back in time taking into consideration that the universe is constantly expanding , then i would say if something was to compress then time would stand still and the solute centre. there is no going through, but infinate time of compression , but who can say at a place where the laws of physics are brokendown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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