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Conversation with Cyrano de Bergerac moved to metaphysics (see link)

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the earlier thread, which I started, was closed so quickly that I did not get a chance to post a comment on the banning of the Rev.


does everyone know that de Bergerac, someone who enjoyed fencing with people and believed passionately in the Copernican heliocentric system, wrote a PHYSICS TEXTBOOK? And he also wrote several books envisioning interplanetary travel. Bergerac was a neat guy, who actually lived, not just someone in a play----he had exceptional abilities AND HE COULD WRITE.


About the Rev, who was just permanently banned because he antagonized people, I never had much contact with him but I asked him recently what he believed:




and he said:


Fair enough. To the extent of my limited understanding, there is nothing that describes the origins of our physical world as powerfully as physical cosmology and evolutionary biology. Absent more elegant and plausible alternatives, I prefer to place my bet on science.


Rev Prez


Just to clear up what this feud's been about, I have no problem with naturalism. Its a pretty sweet position to take. My problem is with the lack of rigor...




Just as Cyrano had his nose, which he was touchy about, so probably the Rev had something HE was touchy about. I don't know what, if anything, it was because i never read closely or discussed with him much except on this brief occasion when I asked him his beliefs.


If he had not so expertly and systematically antagonized people here, and no one else thought of it, I would have eventually proposed to those in charge of SFN that they invite him on board as an expert. He had something to contribute.

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I don't get it either. All this time he harassed us for critiquing creationism, but those were his actual views. What the hell, was he just trying to find a reason to pick fights? He may have had a lot to contribute (and he did, but he just couldn't stop with the attitude), but he was a jerk who made everyone he posted to feel stupid and uncomfortable. I'm glad he's gone.

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W.H. Auden noticed that there is something about people with exceptional ability with language that sometimes overcomes their PERSONALITY DEFECTS or even their disagreeable political philosophies or whatever, like Rudyard Kipling may have written things that sounded politically incorrect or "Imperialist" or something. I doubt Kipling was really a stock cliche Imperialist though, he had too much depth and humanity for that.


Anyway a certain amount of wit and skill with language, originality perhaps, seems to compensate for abrasiveness or unsavoriness, according to Auden, in some cases, and this is what he said about it:



Time, that is intolerant

of the brave and innocent,

And indifferent in a week,

To a beautiful physique,


Worships language and forgives

Everyone by whom it lives;

Pardons cowardice, conceit,

Lays its honours at their feet.


Time that with this strange excuse

Pardoned Kipling and his views,

And will pardon Paul Claudel,

Pardons him for writing well.


In the nightmare of the dark

All the dogs of Europe bark,

And the living nations wait,

Each sequestered in its hate;


Intellectual disgrace

Stares from every human face,

And the seas of pity lie

Locked and frozen in each eye.


Follow, poet, follow right

To the bottom of the night,

With your unconstraining Voice

Still persuade us to rejoice;




Most likely you know that bit, people quote it pretty often.

I bolded the line I was thinking of, to make it stand out.

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I don't get it either. All this time he harassed us for critiquing creationism, but those[/i'] were his actual views...


conceivably, he desired you to critique creationism well


may have thought he was raising the bar


really cant say :confused:

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