dimreepr Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 13 minutes ago, Genady said: Work doesn't have to be hard. No, but it does have to be work; money is a piece of paper, therefore it can't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 8 minutes ago, dimreepr said: No, but it does have to be work; money is a piece of paper, therefore it can't... Sure. How about a delayed pay? You work today, but you don't need money today. So, you agree to get paid later, with interest. Is it acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 Just now, Genady said: Sure. How about a delayed pay? You work today, but you don't need money today. So, you agree to get paid later, with interest. Is it acceptable? Interest is the start of the rabbit hole; why do you think money is valuable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 Just now, dimreepr said: Interest is the start of the rabbit hole; why do you think money is valuable? I know it is the start. That's why I have mentioned it. But you didn't answer my question. If so, why do you think that I think money is valuable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 I see your interest in this bit of pig has grown since yesterday, is 10% more a fair price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 2 minutes ago, dimreepr said: I see your interest in this bit of pig has grown since yesterday, is 10% more a fair price? Here we go again. Thank you for participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 minute ago, Genady said: Here we go again. Thank you for participating. Like I've said "ask for clarification", in some cultures it's called usury. Quote Usury (/ˈjuːʒəri/)[1][2] is the practice of making unethical or immoral monetary loans that unfairly enrich the lender. The term may be used in a moral sense—condemning taking advantage of others' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 minute ago, dimreepr said: Like I've said "ask for clarification", in some cultures it's called usury. I've asked for clarification, but you're clarifying something that I didn't ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 5, 2023 Author Share Posted May 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Genady said: Sure. How about a delayed pay? You work today, but you don't need money today. So, you agree to get paid later, with interest. Is it acceptable? 54 minutes ago, Genady said: I've asked for clarification, but you're clarifying something that I didn't ask for. OK, is what acceptable? The transaction, or that it will cost more tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 6 minutes ago, dimreepr said: OK, is what acceptable? The transaction, or that it will cost more tomorrow? Forget about it. I've lost interest (pun intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Externet Posted May 5, 2023 Share Posted May 5, 2023 moral free market moral free market is the way I always knew it, moral free market, is it possible ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 14 hours ago, Externet said: moral free market, is it possible ? I think so, but it will take a revolution, and there will be a revolution, to find out; on a lighter note, the pressure is rising. 21 hours ago, Genady said: Forget about it. I've lost interest (pun intended). Can't you just clarify your meaning, please; I've enjoyed our conversations. 🖖 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 29 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Can't you just clarify your meaning, please; Yes. "You work today, but you don't need money today. So, you agree to get paid later, with interest." Is this deal free and moral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 Just now, Genady said: Yes. "You work today, but you don't need money today. So, you agree to get paid later, with interest." Is this deal free and moral? Yes of course, if both parties agree then both parties think it's fair, it's only a problem when one of the parties is forced to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 4 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Yes of course, if both parties agree then both parties think it's fair, it's only a problem when one of the parties is forced to accept. I agree with this. However, there is a subtle point. You want 10% interest, but the other party agrees to pay only 5%. You accept. Are you forced to accept in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 The problem with the way we use interest in the current model, is that it creates a money pit/black hole; when money earns money, the wealth distribution spirals inwards; then we all get sucked in. 1 minute ago, Genady said: I agree with this. However, there is a subtle point. You want 10% interest, but the other party agrees to pay only 5%. You accept. Are you forced to accept in this case? Barter isn't force, it's a compromise. Both parties need to feel they have as much value, from the transaction, as they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 3 minutes ago, dimreepr said: The problem with the way we use interest in the current model, is that it creates a money pit/black hole; when money earns money, the wealth distribution spirals inwards; then we all get sucked in. Barter isn't force, it's a compromise. OK. In the above scenario, doesn't your money earn money, namely, the 5%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Genady said: OK. In the above scenario, doesn't your money earn money, namely, the 5%? No, because it's a barter between two, individual (another rabbit hole, I'd rather we didn't explore), parties and that's not been our model for a millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 1 minute ago, dimreepr said: No, because it's a barter between two, individual (another rabbit hole, I'd rather we didn't explore), parties and that's not been our model for a millennium. Fine. What I don't understand though is, when an interest is moral and when it is not. IOW, when an interest constitutes a fair compromise vs the money earns money issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 Today it's: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 Just now, dimreepr said: Today it's: If this was for me, it was a waste of your time. I don't discuss videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 6 minutes ago, Genady said: Fine. What I don't understand though is, when an interest is moral and when it is not. IOW, when an interest constitutes a fair compromise vs the money earns money issue. Sharia Law has a lot to say on the subject. Quote Islamic finance is a way to manage money that keeps within the moral principles of Islam . It covers things like saving, investing, and borrowing to buy a home. The moral principles many Muslims live their lives by are sometimes known as the 'Shari'ah'. 9 minutes ago, Genady said: If this was for me, it was a waste of your time. I don't discuss videos. Shame, it's quite a neat summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 7 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Sharia Law has a lot to say on the subject. Shame, it's quite a neat summary. If it is neat, it should be written down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted May 6, 2023 Author Share Posted May 6, 2023 1 minute ago, Genady said: If it is neat, it should be written down. OK, Computer says no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted May 6, 2023 Share Posted May 6, 2023 "moral principles of Islam" It stops right here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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