Heat Regulation - Obesity

[Michael McMahon]

Sometimes dieting and exercise fail to produce significant weight-loss in obese patients. This is often excused by variations in celular metabolism. Yet what if inadequate temperature resistance was a factor in obesity? For example gyms often have roasting saunas and cold showers as acute forms of exercise. Yet strolling in the rain is also a challenge to the body even if it's more gradual in nature. Wearing shorts is a subtle reminder that walking can still be athletic. Maybe mod-cons like air conditioning and central heating can be counterproductive for weight-loss. For example people who frequently walk can often build up resistance to mild temperature imbalances indoors. Leaving the bedroom window half-open on a moderately cold night for a gentle breeze is a hidden form of calorie burning. Children are often told to wrap up on a cold day or to change out of wet clothes in order to avoid viral threats. Yet people can get flus even in hats and scarves. There might be less flus during summer but there's not too much that can stop them during winter. As such avoiding the cold for pathogenic reasons can be overdone sometimes. Truth be told if we compared the tension of coldness to weightlifting then we'd view our focus on muscle tone and breathing rhythms more benevolently during cold days.

 

I had shin splints as a running problem and yet I often found uneven body temperatures between a hot upper body, cold, numb arms and aching, overheating legs to be an incentive to initiate exercise. Yet even though I never ran fast or lifted heavy weights I managed to avoid being too overweight. I gave up sweets for half a year when I was a young teenager as I was tired of being tempted by getting a chocolate bar with my sandwhich every time I went to the shop for lunch at school. Even though I do indulge the odd time with sweets these days I never go too overboard because the experience early in life of strict dieting allowed me to be more reassured in my self-control. To be honest I enjoy higher-calorie foods like egg sandwhiches to deal with periods of mental stress but I try to avoid panic eating. Yet no matter how much I eat I can't visualise myself becoming really obese. Perhaps being too well-clothed can lead to a lack of motivation to engage in residual exercise in certain people. For example when I go walking I'm never too formal about it as I go at a slow speed due to chronic leg fatigue. Taking breaks during a walk doesn't distract me from resuming the exercise seeing as the suboptimal weather conditions in Ireland and exposed limbs forces me to walk for body heat. Maybe obese people in hot countries might have to embrace cold night walking! Or even wearing heavier clothes during hotter days can incentivise you to go for a walk to cool down with more sweat and to redistribute chest and tummy heat to your limbs and head by faster breathing.  

 

"Obesity levels are closely related to thermal sensitivity. Obese individuals tend to feel hotter and have a higher skin temperature in their hands than the non-obese under the same environmental conditions."

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13167-022-00273-6#:~:text=Obesity levels are closely related,25%2C26%2C27]

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Michael McMahon

[swansont]

20 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

"Obesity levels are closely related to thermal sensitivity. Obese individuals tend to feel hotter and have a higher skin temperature in their hands than the non-obese under the same environmental conditions."

I find “feeling hotter” to be utterly unsurprising. An obese person is better insulated and is also somewhat more spherical than a skinny person. Both promote retaining heat.

I don’t see how wearing heavy clothes would incentivize exercise, which raises your core temperature. For me, feeling hot has the opposite effect. Overheating tended to shut down my ability to exercise. It’s easier to keep warm than cool off; in my experience we tolerate a wider range of cooler temperatures than warmer temperatures from a starting point of what’s normally comfortable (“room temperature” or ~22 degrees C)

[Michael McMahon]

Being thin might help breathing muscle proprioception for the diaghragm. Moving your chest for ventilation takes up proportionately more of your body size for thin people. Different weight categories are separated not only by leg weight but also by breathing efficiency. Feeling hungry might seem pointless from a meterialistic perception when compared to a car needing oil to go faster. Yet fasting can help put focus on joint, breathing and digestive perseverance even if weight isn't lost. Losing or gaining a drastic amount of weight might be an aggravating factor in chronic pain conditions when leg balance and breathing rhythms are interfering with each other.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[Michael McMahon]

People in hot countries cannot opt of the heat when they walk outside. By contrast those in cold countries can wrap themselves with multiple layers of clothing. As such colder climates are at a bigger risk of obesity when every climate could be viewed as equally challenging. For example wearing shorts and tshirts on a cold day is no more uncomfortable than being forced to withstand roaching temperatures. Embracing the cold can force you to vividly imagine the opposite gender for the illusion of mere body heat! The harsh reality is that people are prone to underestimate their body's capacity to resist the cold when hypothermia and frost bite aren't much of a threat in a temperate region. The cold can help you to breathe more deeply if your chest only has light clothing.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[exchemist]

11 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

People in hot countries cannot opt of the heat when they walk outside. By contrast those in cold countries can wrap themselves with multiple layers of clothing. As such colder climates are at a bigger risk of obesity when every climate could be viewed as equally challenging. For example wearing shorts and tshirts on a cold day is no more uncomfortable than being forced to withstand roaching temperatures. Embracing the cold can force you to vividly imagine the opposite gender for the illusion of mere body heat! The harsh reality is that people are prone to underestimate their body's capacity to resist the cold when hypothermia and frost bite aren't much of a threat in a temperate region. The cold can help you to breathe more deeply if your chest only has light clothing.

I can't make much sense of this. In a sentence, what point are you trying to make? 

[Michael McMahon]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

I can't make much sense of this. In a sentence, what point are you trying to make? 

People might be overweight due to poor breathing rather than a lack of exercise.  

[swansont]

1 minute ago, Michael McMahon said:

People might be overweight due to poor breathing rather than a lack of exercise.  

Is there any evidence (i.e. published studies) to support this?

[exchemist]

2 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

People might be overweight due to poor breathing rather than a lack of exercise.  

Ah I see.

Firstly, what's your evidence for that?

Secondly, by what mechanism do you think better breathing would avoid weight gain? 

[Michael McMahon]

36 minutes ago, swansont said:

Is there any evidence (i.e. published studies) to support this?

People in hot countries can still have problems with obesity but are collectively far thinner than those in colder climates. Yet heat isn't just infrared radiation where the air is also made thinner. As such the citizens in hotter countries must be cardiovascularly fit simply to breathe less oxygenated air. 

 

"Most people are comfortable with a relative humidity level of 30-50 percent. Higher levels are uncomfortable because there's too much moisture in the air, making people sweaty and unable to cool down."

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question651.htm

[exchemist]

3 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

People in hot countries can still have problems with obesity but are collectively far thinner than those in colder climates. Yet heat isn't just infrared radiation where the air is also made thinner. As such the citizens in hotter countries must be cardiovascularly fit simply to breathe less oxygenated air. 

 

"Most people are comfortable with a relative humidity level of 30-50 percent. Higher levels are uncomfortable because there's too much moisture in the air, making people sweaty and unable to cool down."

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question651.htm

So you think there is less oxygen in the air in hot countries? That's untrue. Where did you get such a weird idea? 

[Michael McMahon]

1 minute ago, exchemist said:

So you think there is less oxygen in the air in hot countries? That's untrue. Where did you get such a weird idea? 

If the air is less dense then there'll be less oxygen at ground level even if the ratio of chemicals in the air remains the same. Those in colder climates can breathe in such perfect air that there's a risk of complacency. 

[iNow]

Yeah, but that’s like saying the 2nd floor in my house will cause me to lose weight relative to the 1st floor in my house since warm air rises and I will have less O2 while up there. 

[swansont]

29 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

People in hot countries can still have problems with obesity but are collectively far thinner than those in colder climates. Yet heat isn't just infrared radiation where the air is also made thinner.

For the temperatures in question, thermal radiation is IR. But what does this have to do with breathing?

29 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

As such the citizens in hotter countries must be cardiovascularly fit simply to breathe less oxygenated air. 

Less oxygenated?

 

29 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

"Most people are comfortable with a relative humidity level of 30-50 percent. Higher levels are uncomfortable because there's too much moisture in the air, making people sweaty and unable to cool down."

https://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/climate-weather/atmospheric/question651.htm

Still not tied to breathing.

[Michael McMahon]

15 minutes ago, iNow said:

Yeah, but that’s like saying the 2nd floor in my house will cause me to lose weight relative to the 1st floor in my house since warm air rises and I will have less O2 while up there. 

Scandanavian countries tend not to be obese because no amount of clothing can escape the chill of the snow. Mountainous regions in Europe can passively benefit in stamina from the thinner air even if they're not on a par with Kenyan distance runners. As such obesity is epidemic only in temperate climates and low landscapes like Britain and a lot of North America.

[Genady]

2 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

Scandanavian countries tend not to be obese because no amount of clothing can escape the chill of the snow. Mountainous regions in Europe can passively benefit in stamina from the thinner air even if they're not on a par with Kenyan distance runners. As such obesity is epidemic only in temperate climates and low landscapes like Britain and a lot of North America.

But it was not a problem in these countries say, 100 years ago. Did air become thicker there since then?

[exchemist]

11 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

If the air is less dense then there'll be less oxygen at ground level even if the ratio of chemicals in the air remains the same. Those in colder climates can breathe in such perfect air that there's a risk of complacency. 

Oh I see. Comparing a temperature of 10C with one of 30C and applying the gas equation pV=nRT, the change in concentration of oxygen would be 283/303 ~ 93%. So yes there would be 7% less oxygen in the air at a given altitude in a county with an ambient temperature of 30C, compared one of 10C.  This is about the same change as you get by climbing 600m above sea level, i.e. a bit over halfway up a munro in Scotland. For comparison, the British rowing squad does its altitude training at 2000m (in Austria).  

I doubt that 7% makes much difference.  

6 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

Scandanavian countries tend not to be obese because no amount of clothing can escape the chill of the snow. Mountainous regions in Europe can passively benefit in stamina from the thinner air even if they're not on a par with Kenyan distance runners. As such obesity is epidemic only in temperate climates and low landscapes like Britain and a lot of North America.

You are ignoring by far the most obvious effects, which are diet and lifestyle. What the UK and the US have in common, sadly, is a rather sedentary lifestyle and bad diet, driven by the disappearance of the the culture of eating home-cooked food at family mealtimes, and the pervasiveness of soft drinks.  

[Michael McMahon]

7 minutes ago, exchemist said:

I doubt that 7% makes much difference.  

Unlike training schedules climactic stress can occur throughout the day for a lifetime. As such slight differences between climates can make a big difference in physicality over many years. Maybe obese people would benefit from visiting hotter climates on holiday. For example a trip to north Africa would help your breathing focus more than a trip to north France.

[exchemist]

8 minutes ago, Michael McMahon said:

Unlike training schedules climactic stress can occur throughout the day for a lifetime. As such slight differences between climates can make a big difference in physicality over many years. Maybe obese people would benefit from visiting hotter climates on holiday. For example a trip to north Africa would help your breathing focus more than a trip to north France.

The chief effect of altitude training is to increase the concentration of red corpuscles in the blood. You have yet to give any reason why your breathing hypothesis would affect obesity. Why would more red blood cells make you thinner?    

[Michael McMahon]

16 minutes ago, exchemist said:

The chief effect of altitude training is to increase the concentration of red corpuscles in the blood. You have yet to give any reason why your breathing hypothesis would affect obesity. Why would more red blood cells make you thinner?    

Overweight people have more natural insulation and are thus better at withstanding the cold than thin people only if overweight people tried to withstand the cold. Thin people can overcome the cold by hyperfocusing on body tone. Blood is very warm and so the more blood you have the more you can pump it to your extremities when cold. The dilemma for overweight people is that they're technically fitter at pumping a larger volume of blood around their body only if they practiced a lot. 

[Genady]

1 hour ago, Michael McMahon said:

blood ... more you can pump it to your extremities when cold

When cold, the blood is pulled from the extremities rather than pumped to them. It is pulled to keep the heat where it is most needed, primarily the brain.

[TheVat]

Also:  Blood volume doesn't increase proportionate to body volume in obese persons.  The increase in body size is mostly adipose tissue, which is relatively under-perfused when compared to lean body mass.  And blood is not what generates metabolic heat - most body heat comes from rapid contraction of skeletal muscle fibers.  Being fit and well-muscled fortifies you against cold more than adipose tissue - it's a common misconception that fat humans have their adipose tissue in one exterior layer that insulates them.  We're not seals, and a lot of our fat is interlaced in the muscle tissue. 

It is true, however, that a compact build overall retains metabolic heat better, given the greater volume/surface ratio.  It's not surprising that Sami, Inuits, Sherpas, Yakuts and other dwellers in cold places tend more to have that compact build, while Watusis in tropical Africa are long bodied and slender of build.  (in my own family tree, the Swedes were notably heavier of build than the Irish and Yorkies)  

[Michael McMahon]

I've to wear a belt when I go walking at night in shorts and t-shirts because my fingers become too numb to rebutton my trousers!

[iNow]

9 hours ago, Michael McMahon said:

I've to wear a belt when I go walking at night in shorts and t-shirts because my fingers become too numb to rebutton my trousers!

Gloves would likely keep your fingers warmer than a belt, or at least pockets. 

[Michael McMahon]

I was in Turkey last year where I’d extreme abdominal pain for 3 days. I’d bouts of headaches and leg cramps too where I’d to lie in bed for days. I thought at the time it had to do with the scorching heat. I was also uncertain if I’d the covid virus but the leg cramps would have been atypical symptoms of covid. Yet I remember how painful it was for me to use the toilet too where I often had to squat. Embarrassing as it is I can actually squat in the bathroom very easily these days to assist digestive strength. The irony is that there’s no such thing as a collective pain response for squatting. Hence my brain had somehow initiated pain in Turkey in order to replicate a prior behaviour that I’d taken no notice of. I’m not trying to disgust readers with this story but it goes to show that the pain response can be an adaptive response to automate a previously voluntary action. So who knows how many tummy bugs in society might actually be self-initiated rather than infection based. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Michael McMahon

[John Cuthber]

On 3/23/2023 at 11:07 PM, Michael McMahon said:

Thin people can overcome the cold by hyperfocusing on body tone.

Really?
This whole thread seems to be full of speculations and errors.