caracal Posted November 24 Share Posted November 24 Hi all, I wanted to write new thread about this topic just because there is just too much text in the previous one. I also change the perspective and look directly to a important question: how cosmological observations constrains shrinking matter theories. I was thinking if this is repetition but i wasn't sure. If many of you think this is repetition maybe i then ask you to delete this thread. So Here in this topic i look what kind of observational constrains there are for shrinking matter theory. First why do i still bother thinking shrinking matter theory? --------- MRS Hawkings have published (2010) a result that quasars don't exhibit effects of time dilation. (https://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1824) This result is in fact the only good reason i still think shrinking matter model could be real. This result may be explained by that supermassive black holes do not shrink when ordinary matter shrinks. Hawking has proposed some other explanations at the end of the paper. I don't actually know how astronomers think of this study and do they think it is for example reliable. IF there is just one thing i ask you to discuss about it is this study. How to explain this kind of result? The rest could actually be something i have already discussed with other members in this forum. --------- I try to be as brief as possible. I don't concider CMD - lambda model in different coordinates - that would just be exactly the same theory than CMD lambda model but in different kind of coordinates where matter shrinks relative to the coordinates. There are two things what i concider that are different: 1)Shrinking depends on proper time (and of course the 'scale' of the matter) 2)Apparent expansion of space is only apparent and is observational illusion caused by shrinking of matter. Gravitation however does pull matter together On the scalability argument ---------- One main argument against shrinking matter theory was that standard model and gravitation should start to look very different if matter shrinks. However i think it is still possible that the whole standard model gravitation experiences just right kind of shift into smaller length scale when matter shrinks that it looks like in our perspective that nothing has changed in standard model or behaviour of matter. I don't however know what would be the underlying cause for this kind of shift. Another argument against SMT is that standard model should look different in distant object in cosmological distances that has been in the past. But actually the standard model can be different, if the behavior of matter looks exactly as if it has only changes that are equal to cosmological observations in expanding space model: Light signal coming from distant object has time dilation, red shift and has it looks like that matter has been closer together in the past. That observation of cosmic photons actually demands three things - not only length but also the time rate and all energies of matter should change in the shrinking matter. Only that way the cosmic photon appears to as as it has just to have lost some of its momentum, while the real explanation of this would be that the photon already in the moment of emission has these properties. This is because the energy, wavelength and frequency of photon follows equation E = hf ,where h is universal constant. Why shrinking matter theory is worth thinking? There are 3 reasons for that: 1)If the shrinking of matter depends on proper time, then black holes do not shrink and neutron stars shrink slower. This could suite together with MRS Hawkings result that quasars don't exhibit effects of time dilation. (https://arxiv.org/abs/1004.1824) This result is in fact the ONLY reason i still think shrinking matter model could be real. 2)The exiting part of the theory is that there should exist matter that has shrunk differently in the past and therefore has different 'preferred length scale'. This matter is in places where matter has have relativistic time dilation for long time. However the differences between matter in different places in solar system are very small, just barely observable. For example differences of proton or electron in meteorite samples. (This kind of matter could even be candidate for dark matter. Universe may for example contain two or more generations of matter that lies in different scales, for example protons that belongs to 200 times larger length scale than ordinary protons ) 3)There are two measurable modifications to stellar and interstellar/galactic dynamics a) - "Distance expansion" R1/R0 = 1 + k(t1-t0) = 1 + 6.93*10^-11 1/year [t1-t0] (about same as hubble constant) b) - delay effect correction to gravity g = -(1 + kc/r)(GM/r^2) (which is very small if the rate of shrinking is small) Distance expansion is not a force - therefore it is not cancelled by gravitation. "Distance expansion" is apparent growth of otherwise fixed distances if they are measured by shrinking observer. The delay effect comes from that matter has been different in the past - including its gravitation field. But this delay effect is very small if the shrinking of matter is slow. Observational problems ------- There is a Problem with "distance expansion" in solar system that could falsify shrinking matter theory: -Because of distance expansion, moon should receed from earth at least 2.6cm/year and earth should preceed from sun 10.4m/year. The observed values are 3.8cm/year and 10.4cm/year, later is 100 times too small and the former may be also too big but i dont know how much of this 3.8cm is coming from tidal decay. Is there a process that could cancel this 10.4m/year out? for example the influence of other planets? If there are no such processes, this would falsify shrinking matter theories. On the observational constrains for shrinking matter theory: -------------- What shrinking matter theory should do is the following -Standard model and gravitation is measured not to change over cosmological time when doing local measurements -Velocity of light is constant in empty space and space follows Lorentz covariance -When observing distant galaxies in the past the light signal should have 1)Redshift 2)Time dilation 3)The distant galaxy looks as if it has been closer in the past 4)Photons lose momentum Like i already wrote above, one main argument against shrinking matter theory is that standard model and gravitation should look very different if matter shrinks. However it is still possible that the whole standard model gravitation experiences just right kind of shift into smaller length scale when matter shrinks. Another argument against SMT is that standard model should look different in distant object in cosmological distances that has been in the past. But actually the standard model can be different, if the behavior of matter looks exactly as if it has only changes that are equal to 1)-4) and nothing else. 1),2) and c=constant requires that the time of the matter must accelerate by inverse of its shrinking factor 4) requires, if the law E = hf still holds and h is universal constant, that the energy and momentum meter we use, should shift that way that all energies, momentums and masses increases by same factor than the time accelerates. To put these into simple math: length unit: l_new = L * l_old time unit : t_new = L * t_old mass unit: m_new = (1/L) m_old Energy unit: E_new = (1/L) E_old Where L = 1 + k(t_new-t_old) , which is only linear approximation that fits to Hubble's law. K would be actually slightly greater than Hubble constant if you count that gravitation is sligthly pulling matter together. this k > Hubble Constant, propably by few percents?. For example the changes in photon that is emitted by same matter in the past and now are exactly same than effects in the picture in just looking or photon in cosmological distances in expanding space model. The change in all energies and masses is really DEMANDED by the observational fact that cosmic photon appears to lose momentum and energy. (Other possibility could be planck constant h is not constant in equation E = hf but i dont concider it here. I think it is an observed fact that h is universal constant also for cosmic photons.) About dynamics ------------ Next question is, how do dynamical properties of matter change? If newtons 2nd law is universal law, then F = ma for inner interactions => F_new/F_old = (1/L^2) This does not apply to cross interactions (interaction between two differently shrunk particles) The equation for cross interactions could be F_cross/F_old = 1/(L1*L2) (or is it?) Since power P = E/t => P_new/P_old = (1/L^2) Since acceleration is a = v/t => a_new/a_old = 1/L About Friedmann equations ----------------------------- What is the time dependency of scale factor? There are now two phenomena that has effect on scale factor: - Distance expansion - Gravitation And it is possible that there is no "ordinary expansion" of the space present. In empty space or space with small amount of dust there is only distance expansion. But how does distance expansion vary over cosmological time scales? A good guess could be that it is exponential in the viewpoint of shrinking observer: a(t) = exp(k(t-t0)) a(t0) = 1 This looks similar than dust + cosmological constant - universe What is the equation for a(t) if also gravitation is taken into account? I don't know... ---- End Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...

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