Making some ethanol... [only for when you are reaaaaally bored !]

[Externet]

Good day.

Never done it; never seen it done.  Read a lot about safety and many other details and would like you green light on the video ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D070-PHjDLM&ab_channel=HowtoMoonshine   in case something is missing !

Have that countertop 'air distiller' shown, with differences:  Added a digital temperature control; and the lid internals is plastic instead of another models being stainless.   In my ignorance, a sugar mash is the safest for beginners on this machine. 

Am ready to start preparing the mash one of these days, after your blessings.

[John Cuthber]

Moonshine...

[Moontanman]

My grandfather was a moonshiner! 

[Peterkin]

My father built a little still in our kitchen one time. He made wine in the hall closet, and it wasn't very good, so he tried making brandy out of it. Very little distillate off the lid, most of it went back in the wine, which got stronger, not better. So he constructed a still with copper coil inside a container of cold water (can't recall what it was made of) and got a steady drip. Lots of work, lots of mess, lots of time, and I have no idea how it tasted. Eventually he gave it up and went to the LCBO for his daily medication. 

[swansont]

14 hours ago, Externet said:

Am ready to start preparing the mash one of these days, after your blessings.

!

Moderator Note

It’s illegal in the US to make moonshine for personal consumption.

 

[Sensei]

14 hours ago, Externet said:

In my ignorance, a sugar mash is the safest for beginners on this machine. 

Sugar does not contain the nitrogen needed for yeast growth.

People add some raisins for example.

[Phi for All]

There should be a way to talk about this that doesn't fall afoul of our "don't discuss illegal activities" rule. It's legal in the US to make a certain amount of wine and beer for personal consumption. Perhaps the thread can focus on putting together a stance on why or why not the laws on distilling spirits should be changed? 

[Moontanman]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

It’s illegal in the US to make moonshine for personal consumption.

 

Hmmm, are you sure about that? I checked, you are correct but permits can be obtained to produce distilled spirits, not sure how much they cost. I was skeptical because I know several people who do it or have done it small scale.  I know a guy who makes some great rye whisky!

Edited October 26, 2022 by Moontanman

[Sensei]

Different states have different regulations.

https://www.ncsl.org/research/financial-services-and-commerce/home-manufacture-of-alcohol-state-statutes.aspx

"In 1978, Congress enacted Public Law 95-458 (H.R. 1337), amending the Internal Revenue Code to allow any adult to produce beer, without the payment of tax, for personal or family use. The beer produced per household may not exceed: (1) 200 gallons per calendar year if there are two or more adults residing in the household, or (2) 100 gallons per calendar year if there is only one adult residing in the household. "

"Under 27 C.F.R. 24.75, adults may produce wine for personal or family use in the same amount as allowed for beer."

(wine can have 3-4 times more ethanol than beer)

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Sensei

[John Cuthber]

About 95% of the population don't live in the USA.
In the UK I can make pretty much as much wine and beer as I want, but I can't legally distill (including "freeze distillation") or sell it.
So, I can tell you that the recipe needs nitrogen and phosphorus.
Diammonium phosphate is traditional.
I can also tell you (because I'm a scientist) that anyone who thinks you get 9 jars of "moonshine" from a gallon of sugar and bread-yeast is either nuts or has a very weak drink.
 

[exchemist]

6 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Moonshine...

Eh??

[StringJunky]

If one don't know the whys and wherefores of distilling and go the pure sugar yeast and water route, methanol poisoning will probably be the outcome.

[Phi for All]

41 minutes ago, Moontanman said:

Hmmm, are you sure about that? I checked, you are correct but permits can be obtained to produce distilled spirits, not sure how much they cost. I was skeptical because I know several people who do it or have done it small scale.  I know a guy who makes some great rye whisky!

The only permits I saw involved making ethanol for fuel. If you know about any permits that allow one to have a boutique distillery, please link to them. That would help us avoid breaking our own rules.

[Peterkin]

Distilling is a different proposition from just fermenting alcoholic beverages. Stills, especially home-made ones, can be unsafe.

https://diydistilling.com/is-distilling-alcohol-at-home-dangerous/

I think the law attempts to address two potential hazards: to the moonshiner and possible his guests, and to the economy. If the distillery is poorly made or maintained, there is significant danger of burns, poisoning, injury from flying debris, etc. If it is successful, and unlicensed, the distiller may attempt to sell his product and evade the tax - which, former presidents notwithstanding - was already illegal.

In Canada, you can apply for a license, and there are some small distilleries. https://learntomoonshine.com/is-it-illegal-to-make-moonshine-in-canada/

Looks like in the States, too. https://www.southernliving.com/travel/boutique-southern-distilleries

Edited October 26, 2022 by Peterkin

[John Cuthber]

49 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

If one don't know the whys and wherefores of distilling and go the pure sugar yeast and water route, methanol poisoning will probably be the outcome.

And where would the methanol come from?

50 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Eh??

That's what I thought.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, Moontanman said:

Hmmm, are you sure about that? I checked, you are correct but permits can be obtained to produce distilled spirits, not sure how much they cost. I was skeptical because I know several people who do it or have done it small scale.  I know a guy who makes some great rye whisky!

Permits for making fuel or registering as a distiller, but not in a residential building
 

Fortunately Phi shared a link elsewhere to a summary of areas of the US code that apply

https://www.ttb.gov/distilled-spirits/penalties-for-illegal-distilling#:~:text=TTB Glossary-,Home Distilling,26 United States Code (U.S.C.)

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

About 95% of the population don't live in the USA.

But 100% of the OP’s posted from there

[MigL]

The Liquor Store sells it pretty cheap, and it's available when you want it.
No mess, no fuss.
And it tastes better ...

[Externet]

Thanks, fellows.

1.- From what I read, sugar mash does not produce methanol.  There is a contrary opinion above. THAT is why I created the thread, to find science facts, not hillbilly tales.

2.- As the topic may infringe in legality; please close the thread if deserved.  I do not want to be the cause of trouble.

 

Edited, added : Post #2 clearly says to avoid 120F.   FOR WHAT ? making the mash or distilling ?      THAT is what pisses me off from youtubers and brought me to a science site with sharp people. 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Externet

[Moontanman]

17 hours ago, StringJunky said:

If one don't know the whys and wherefores of distilling and go the pure sugar yeast and water route, methanol poisoning will probably be the outcome.

There are ways around that. 

16 hours ago, swansont said:

Permits for making fuel or registering as a distiller, but not in a residential building
 

Fortunately Phi shared a link elsewhere to a summary of areas of the US code that apply

https://www.ttb.gov/distilled-spirits/penalties-for-illegal-distilling#:~:text=TTB Glossary-,Home Distilling,26 United States Code (U.S.C.)

But 100% of the OP’s posted from there

 

17 hours ago, Phi for All said:

The only permits I saw involved making ethanol for fuel. If you know about any permits that allow one to have a boutique distillery, please link to them. That would help us avoid breaking our own rules.

Here is the law as i could find it, interestingly only New Zealand and Russia allow for home distilling for personal use and some US states have laws set up that would legalize distilling for personal use if it became legal Federally but here is the law in my state NC.

https://www.distillate.org/laws/North Carolina#:~:text=It is illegal to distill,and not for personal use.

Quote

It is illegal to distill moonshine in North Carolina without a distilling permit, even for home consumption or personal use. 27 CFR 1.21. But because this is a commercial license the state will expect that you will be making spirits commercially, and not for personal use. 27 CFR 1.24. A distillation operation may not be located in a residence, a yard, a shed, or other enclosure connected with a residence.

It is legal to own a still, and to use a still for non-ethanol production such as distilling water or making essential oils as long as ethanol is not a byproduct.

North Carolina does allow residents to make their own wine and beer.

 

18B-306. Making wines and malt beverages for private use.

An individual may make, possess, and transport native wines and malt beverages for his own use and for the use of his family and guests. Native wines shall be made principally from honey, grapes, or other fruit or grain grown in this State, or from wine kits containing honey, grapes, or other fruit or grain concentrates, and shall have only that alcoholic content produced by natural fermentation. Malt beverages may be made by use of malt beverage kits containing grain extracts or concentrates. Wine kits and malt beverage kits may be sold in this State. No ABC permit is required to make beverages pursuant to this section.

 

 

[Sensei]

On 10/27/2022 at 1:05 AM, Externet said:

Edited, added : Post #2 clearly says to avoid 120F.   FOR WHAT ? making the mash or distilling ?   

When you distill something, you must slightly exceed the boiling point of the substance. Check the ethanol chart, and you will have the answer to your question..

Edited October 28, 2022 by Sensei

[John Cuthber]

4 hours ago, Sensei said:

When you distill something, you must slightly exceed the boiling point of the substance. Check the ethanol chart, and you will have the answer to your question..

The real question is why they think you can boil something at 120 F.

That, together with the impossible yield and the nutrient poor recipe, suggests to me that you should not seek guidance from that site.

[TheVat]

F was supposed to be C?

Otherwise, their lab is located at 46,000 feet elevation.  

[John Cuthber]

The most likely explanation is simply that they are clueless.

[Moontanman]

On 10/26/2022 at 3:43 PM, John Cuthber said:

And where would the methanol come from?

The first quart or so of the first run is poured out because It can contain methanol after that it is almost pure ethanol. 

[CharonY]

On 10/26/2022 at 12:53 PM, StringJunky said:

If one don't know the whys and wherefores of distilling and go the pure sugar yeast and water route, methanol poisoning will probably be the outcome.

IIRC methanol is a byproduct of pectin degradation pathways. Pure sugar would be safer than plant material,  for example.