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How best to start including men who are victims of abuse by women into the public discourse (Johny Depp vs Amber Heard)


koti

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Just now, MSC said:

I suppose this leads me to the question; How does abuse between public figures and abuse between ordinary people differ in presentation and what are the commonalities? Definitely a complicated issue as you say.

I think there is a bit of an issue with the scope of the problem and our desire to use specific narratives. A specific case of abuse, especially involving known names just feels more emotionally engaging and interesting. However, domestic abuse is a widespread issue and IMO the best way to tackle them is to look and talk about population-wide data and patterns.

 

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Not saying that men don't get abused.
But this trial, along with the many judicial, as well as courtroom irregularities, was simply a popularity contest.
JD's defense was mostly 
"I blacked out drunk
I don't remember what I did
I apologized for what I did
I did not do any of the things Im accused of"

The trial will be appealed, and the verdict will no doubt change.
And They'll both come off looking like even bigger idiots.

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1 minute ago, zapatos said:

Yeah, I don't think that is going to happen.

Based on what little I have read of their other comments on this thread, I'm inclined to agree with you. Which is a shame really. Why can't we have these discussions without the motivation for it being a sensationalist celebrity fued? 

The main question in the OP: How best to start including men whom are victims of abuse by women into the public discourse? Ought to be obvious by now.

1. Stop ridiculing men whom are abused by women. While you're at it, stop hurling abuse at women for speaking out about it when they are abused. You can't allow one without the other. 

2. Be more willing to talk about your own abuse, by or against someone else and stand up for abuse victims when people don't have anything constructive or helpful to say about them. 

3. Try to focus less on separating the discussions based on characteristics of identity. Less of this men vs women crap, acknowledging abuse in homosexual relationships is important too.

4. Recognize that abuse is abuse. Whomever the perpetrator is. 

5. Even if you have never suffered from abuse, the best way to include these things in the public discourse... is to be a member of the public, talking about them! Pressuring politicians, local and beyond to take the issue seriously. Prosecution, legislation, affordable mental healthcare, incarceration and rehabilitation. 

6. Consistently give a shit. Stop only giving a shit when it impacts on who may or may not get cast in a movie or TV show. 

7. Leave the door open for forgiveness of those willing to take responsibility for what they have done. Treat abusers as sick and in need of therapy instead of as evil irredeemable bastards who will be torched when found. 

8. Give people claiming to be victims of abuse the benefit of the doubt and don't make your mind up about it based on some stupid celebrity trial that technically isn't even over yet. 

9. Be a nicer and kinder person in general. As an individual we can all make ourselves more approachable. This way we are more open to lending an ear and aid to victims and perpetrators both. (By aid of perpetrators, I don't mean shield from responsibility. I mean enable them to feel safe enough to take responsibility and get the help they need to manage their shit. 

Some of those 9 are easier than others. But then nothing worthwhile is ever easy. Except for making omlettes, super easy but also worthwhile. Okay I'm hungry now.

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44 minutes ago, MSC said:

Treat abusers as sick and in need of therapy instead of as evil irredeemable bastards who will be torched when found. 

Are abusers sick and in need of therapy? Maybe they are but the ones I've seen are bullies or abuse when drinking. Perhaps they are sick, but that is not how they looked to my untrained eye.

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2 hours ago, zapatos said:

Are abusers sick and in need of therapy? Maybe they are but the ones I've seen are bullies or abuse when drinking. Perhaps they are sick, but that is not how they looked to my untrained eye

Some are for sure. I don't know whether or not I believe in true evil. What I didn't say, is to only give them therapy and don't punish them for what they have done. Sometimes punishment is the therapy. Be they bullies or addicts. So long as punishment is in proportion and includes efforts to reduce recidivism. For some, it will take therapy. For the worst, life sentences, especially for the sadists. 

Ultimately you have got to do what works and a one size fits all approach isn't. If you have an untrained eye, then try to train it. You'll make mistakes, I'll make mistakes, but at least we'll give a shit and stand for something at the same time.

Case and point, I fucked up my omlettes. Forgot to butter the damn pan. Mistakes mistakes mistakes.

Edited by MSC
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Here you are; dishing out advice, yet you can't even fry up some eggs ...

🙂 😃 😆

I consider Koti a good friend, but I don't believe anybody's standards should be based on Hollywood celebrity types.
Cut him some slack, his bitterness is related to past life experiences.

Edited by MigL
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10 minutes ago, MigL said:

Here you are; dishing out advice, yet you can't even fry up some eggs

Very punny 😆 I'll have you know 98% of my omlettes have been perfect. I fucked up and forgot the butter because I complicated the issue by deciding to make the filling, diced beef burgers and garlic mushrooms. All served on a burger bun. Was literally an omlett burger!! Early experiments and first attempts always go bad. Murphys law! Still tasted awesome though! Next time I'll get it right... it also still doesn't come close to what happened when I first made my own scrambled eggs age 8 in a microwave... no word of a lie, they exploded in my face when I put the fork in. 

17 minutes ago, MigL said:

consider Koti a good friend, but I don't believe anybody's standards should be based on Hollywood celebrity types.
Cut him some slack, his bitterness is related to past life experiences.

I didn't really say anything against Koti. Most of my interactions with them here have been pleasant most of the time as far as I can recall. That said, he should try having a kid. My daughter melts away more of my bitterness everyday. :)

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6 hours ago, MSC said:

Consistently give a shit.

Here's yours for the day.

  

13 hours ago, MSC said:

When it comes to abuse, I don't believe in mutual domestic abuse unless you have the very rare circumstances of where both of the individuals involved have equal power in the relationship and and social circle. Quite frankly, JD has more wealth, fame and social capital than Amber heard. A power difference it would be extremely easy for an abuser to wield. Which lends a lot of plausibility to AHs claims of being abused by JD.

Sounds like imaginary values. Evo-psych?

 

12 hours ago, CharonY said:

In fact, one could interpret the situation between them as an attempt to assert power.

Agreed. Damage control by both parties and grist for the media mill, here we are cleaning up a mess. Lessons for gleaners.

"Consistently give a shit"

At least one per day.

 

2 hours ago, MSC said:

I didn't really say anything against Koti. Most of my interactions with them here have been pleasant most of the time as far as I can recall. That said, he should try having a kid. My daughter melts away more of my bitterness everyday.

3 hours ago, MSC said:

I don't know whether or not I believe in true evil.

We are legion

Edited by NTuft
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9 hours ago, MSC said:

he should try having a kid. My daughter melts away more of my bitterness everyday.

He did, and yet seems full of bile and vitriol and an inability to engage rationally now more than ever. 

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38 minutes ago, iNow said:

He did, and yet seems full of bile and vitriol and an inability to engage rationally now more than ever. 

Well that's a shame. He'd probably have been kicked out of an ethics classroom by now.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Speaking of J Depp ...

It definitely seems like he has some substance abuse/anger management issues along with a sense of being 'better' than others.

Johnny Depp settles assault lawsuit filed by ‘City of Lies’ crew member (msn.com)

Maybe A Heard should have asked G Brooks, the location manager who brought the lawsuit, to testify at her defamation trial.

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Settling a lawsuit in the US doesn't really tell you anything. Cases are often launched with the calculation that, innocent or guilty, it's better and cheaper for the accused to settle. 

You need deep pockets to fight, and the juries are notoriously unpredictable. 

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