Evaporation and condensation as a source of energy

[BestChance]

                                                                                                                                                                      Dedicated to those who do not accept war

                                                                                                         Evaporation and condensation as a source of energy

Your attention is presented to the concept of extracting the thermal energy of the environment based on the processes of evaporation and condensation of a substance that is in equilibrium "liquid - vapor". In our example, this substance is carbon dioxide, we will denote it in the figures as (CO2).
Three heat-insulated sealed tanks are shown below: tank A with liquid carbon dioxide at ambient temperature, tank with piston and tank B with liquid carbon dioxide at sub-ambient temperature. The connections of tanks A and B to the piston tank are controlled by valves A and B, as shown in fig. 1, 2 and 3. The flow of liquid and gaseous carbon dioxide from tank A to piston tank and from piston tank to tank B are shown by horizontal arrows in fig. 1, 2 and 3. Vertical arrows in fig. 1 and 2 show the piston strokes.

Fig. 1

Liquid carbon dioxide at ambient temperature, in "liquid - vapor" equilibrium, from tank A entered the tank with a piston, see fig. 1. After receiving the required amount of carbon dioxide, valve A was closed. Then the piston, under the action of the pressure force of saturated carbon dioxide vapor on it, made its upward stroke, where it was stopped when it reached its maximum stroke. In this case, the adiabatic expansion of gaseous carbon dioxide under the piston and the boiling of liquid carbon dioxide at the bottom of the tank occurred, followed by a decrease in their temperature and pressure. Then the valve B open, see fig. 2.

Fig. 2

Now let's let the piston go down. Under the action of the piston, the cooled mixture of gaseous and liquid carbon dioxide will pass into tank B. When the piston reaches the minimum stroke, close valve B and open valve A, see fig. 3.

Fig. 3

The required amount of liquid carbon dioxide from tank A will again pass into the tank with the piston. Valve A is closed again. Then the piston, under the action of the pressure force of saturated carbon dioxide vapor on it, will again make its upward stroke, where it will be stopped when it reaches its maximum stroke. The position of the reservoir system and the piston will be as it was at the beginning, and is shown in fig. 1.
The piston, in its full stroke from bottom to top and back, does work that can be diverted to the consumer to generate, for example, electricity. This useful work on the P-V diagram, see fig. 4 below, is shown as the area of the figure bounded by lines converging at points A, B and C.

Fig. 4

The diagram C-A shows what happens to the piston in fig. 3. The diagram A-B - what happens to the piston in fig. 1. The diagram B-C - what happens in fig. 2.
For a number of full stroke cycles, from bottom to top and back, the piston fills reservoir B with cooled liquid carbon dioxide. A full tank B of chilled carbon dioxide can be used as a refrigerator or other useful uses. When the temperature of tank B equalizes with the ambient temperature, tanks B with liquid carbon dioxide and the emptied A, can be swapped to restart the piston.
In this way, humanity can make up for the lack of energy for its needs and, at the same time, ensure the ecological balance of its planet. This is a real chance.

Emil Kutin
January 22, 2022, Russia, St. Petersburg

Edited January 22, 2022 by BestChance

[bangstrom]

Where do you get the energy to compress the CO2 vapor in tank B back to a liquid?

[BestChance]

44 minutes ago, bangstrom said:

Where do you get the energy to compress the CO2 vapor in tank B back to a liquid?

It is assumed that the temperature of carbon dioxide under the piston is equal to the temperature of carbon dioxide in tank B. This means that the pressure under the piston during its downward stroke is equal to the pressure in tank B (low temperature).

Actually, I don't know why google translator translated low temperature as "sub-ambient". Actually, I don't speak English at all.

Edited fig. 1, 2 and 3

 

Dedicated to those who do not accept war

                                                                                                         Evaporation and condensation as a source of energy

Your attention is presented to the concept of extracting the thermal energy of the environment based on the processes of evaporation and condensation of a substance that is in equilibrium "liquid - vapor". In our example, this substance is carbon dioxide, we will denote it in the figures as (CO2).
Three heat-insulated sealed tanks are shown below: tank A with liquid carbon dioxide at ambient temperature, tank with piston and tank B with liquid carbon dioxide at sub-ambient temperature. The connections of tanks A and B to the piston tank are controlled by valves A and B, as shown in fig. 1, 2 and 3. The flow of liquid and gaseous carbon dioxide from tank A to piston tank and from piston tank to tank B are shown by horizontal arrows in fig. 1, 2 and 3. Vertical arrows in fig. 1 and 2 show the piston strokes.

Fig. 1

Liquid carbon dioxide at ambient temperature, in "liquid - vapor" equilibrium, from tank A entered the tank with a piston, see fig. 1. After receiving the required amount of carbon dioxide, valve A was closed. Then the piston, under the action of the pressure force of saturated carbon dioxide vapor on it, made its upward stroke, where it was stopped when it reached its maximum stroke. In this case, the adiabatic expansion of gaseous carbon dioxide under the piston and the boiling of liquid carbon dioxide at the bottom of the tank occurred, followed by a decrease in their temperature and pressure. Then the valve B open, see fig. 2.

Fig. 2

Now let's let the piston go down. Under the action of the piston, the cooled mixture of gaseous and liquid carbon dioxide will pass into tank B. When the piston reaches the minimum stroke, close valve B and open valve A, see fig. 3.

Fig. 3

The required amount of liquid carbon dioxide from tank A will again pass into the tank with the piston. Valve A is closed again. Then the piston, under the action of the pressure force of saturated carbon dioxide vapor on it, will again make its upward stroke, where it will be stopped when it reaches its maximum stroke. The position of the reservoir system and the piston will be as it was at the beginning, and is shown in fig. 1.
The piston, in its full stroke from bottom to top and back, does work that can be diverted to the consumer to generate, for example, electricity. This useful work on the P-V diagram, see fig. 4 below, is shown as the area of the figure bounded by lines converging at points A, B and C.

Fig. 4

The diagram C-A shows what happens to the piston in fig. 3. The diagram A-B - what happens to the piston in fig. 1. The diagram B-C - what happens in fig. 2.
For a number of full stroke cycles, from bottom to top and back, the piston fills reservoir B with cooled liquid carbon dioxide. A full tank B of chilled carbon dioxide can be used as a refrigerator or other useful uses. When the temperature of tank B equalizes with the ambient temperature, tanks B with liquid carbon dioxide and the emptied A, can be swapped to restart the piston.
In this way, humanity can make up for the lack of energy for its needs and, at the same time, ensure the ecological balance of its planet. This is a real chance.

Emil Kutin
January 22, 2022, Russia, St. Petersburg

[studiot]

As I understand your idea, you want to extract thermal energy (heat) from the environment into your engine where that energy is converted and output as work.

6 hours ago, BestChance said:

Your attention is presented to the concept of extracting the thermal energy of the environment

Yet you also say that the system is insulated.

6 hours ago, BestChance said:

Three heat-insulated sealed tanks are shown below

So, first question,  how does the heat from the environment enter your engine ?

 

 

[BestChance]

studiot As I understand your idea, you want to extract thermal energy (heat) from the environment into your engine where that energy is converted and output as work.

Quite right.

studiot Yet you also say that the system is insulated.

Quite right.

studiot So, first question,  how does the heat from the environment enter your engine ?

It's simple. If necessary, the cooled tank can be brought into contact with the environment. Then the thermal insulation can be restored.

[exchemist]

12 minutes ago, BestChance said:

studiot As I understand your idea, you want to extract thermal energy (heat) from the environment into your engine where that energy is converted and output as work.

Quite right.

studiot Yet you also say that the system is insulated.

Quite right.

studiot So, first question,  how does the heat from the environment enter your engine ?

It's simple. If necessary, the cooled tank can be brought into contact with the environment. Then the thermal insulation can be restored.

No. You have 2 tanks at different temperatures.  Only one of these can be at the" ambient" temperature of the environment. The other must be at a different temperature, either higher or lower, in order for the engine to work.

How is that different temperature created?  

[studiot]

34 minutes ago, BestChance said:

It's simple. If necessary, the cooled tank can be brought into contact with the environment. Then the thermal insulation can be restored.

So what is the point of the thermal insulation ?

Please complete your engine description without missing stuff out.

[BestChance]

exchemist 

No. You have 2 tanks at different temperatures.  Only one of these can be at the" ambient" temperature of the environment. The other must be at a different temperature, either higher or lower, in order for the engine to work.

How is that different temperature created?

BestChance

Carbon dioxide from tank A at ambient temperature enters the tank with the piston. Valve A is closed.
The piston goes up, the volume occupied by carbon dioxide increases. The temperature of carbon dioxide decreases due to adiabatic expansion. Valve B opens. The piston goes down. In a cooled state, carbon dioxide enters reservoir B.

In short.
Different temperatures are created due to the adiabatic expansion of carbon dioxide.

studiot 

So what is the point of the thermal insulation ?

Please complete your engine description without missing stuff out.

BestChance 

The thermal insulation of the piston tank is necessary for the adiabatic expansion and therefore for the cooling of the carbon dioxide under the piston.
Thermal insulation of tank B is needed so that carbon dioxide can freely enter tank B from the tank with the piston.

Thermal insulation of tank A is optional, just so convenient for logical analysis. The indicators are constant.

[sethoflagos]

On this sunny Lagos afternoon, the first thought that occurs is that liquid carbon dioxide in my ambient conditions would be in the neighbourhood of its critical point (78.3 bara, 31.1 deg C). Perhaps it's a shade cooler in most of Russia today, but even so, we need to be extremely wary of any processes that seek to gain advantage from assumed PV behaviour under gas-liquid phase changes. In the vicinity of the critical point, such leverage vanishes as gas and liquid become indistinguishable.

Next thought is that the OP process schematics (Fig. 1-3) do not match the PV cycle shown in Fig. 4.

Since no actual numbers are supplied, it's reasonable to take path AB (piston induced vapourisation/vapour expansion) at face value.

However Figs 2&3 indicate a subsequent reversal of this process (piston induced compression/condensation). Even if it were possible to remove all thermodynamic inefficiencies from this cycle, the return PV path BA would simply overlie AB. No nett work, no nett cooling, no creation of the 'convenient' heat sink of tank B.

By contrast, Fig 4 gives path BC, an isobaric contraction (~ideal condenser stage) followed by path CA, an isochoric compression (~ideal liquid pumping stage), both of which represent parasitic external energy inputs not disclosed by the OP. The implied external refrigeration plant (realising BC) is going to be a thermodynamically expensive item in particular.

[TheVat]

Isn't Bestchance a sock puppet of Erik2014, and this is a clone of this earlier thread?

 

[BestChance]

sethoflagos On this sunny Lagos afternoon...

BestChance

Everything is simple.

The diagram C-A shows what happens to the piston in fig. 3. Now let's let the piston go down. Under the action of the piston, the cooled mixture of gaseous and liquid carbon dioxide will pass into tank B. When the piston reaches the minimum stroke, close valve B and open valve A, see fig. 3

The diagram A-B - what happens to the piston in fig. 1. Liquid carbon dioxide at ambient temperature, in "liquid - vapor" equilibrium, from tank A entered the tank with a piston, see fig. 1. After receiving the required amount of carbon dioxide, valve A was closed. Then the piston, under the action of the pressure force of saturated carbon dioxide vapor on it, made its upward stroke, where it was stopped when it reached its maximum stroke. In this case, the adiabatic expansion of gaseous carbon dioxide under the piston and the boiling of liquid carbon dioxide at the bottom of the tank occurred, followed by a decrease in their temperature and pressure. Then the valve B open, see fig. 2.

The diagram B-C - what happens in fig. 2. Now let's let the piston go down. Under the action of the piston, the cooled mixture of gaseous and liquid carbon dioxide will pass into tank B.

Then again C-A. Everything matches. As for the high cost, do not tell my slippers.

TheVat Isn't Bestchance a sock puppet of Erik2014, and this is a clone of this earlier thread?

BestChance Let's leave Eric2014 and 2014 alone. Now is not up to it.

[sethoflagos]

36 minutes ago, BestChance said:

The diagram C-A shows what happens to the piston in fig. 3. Now let's let the piston go down. Under the action of the piston, the cooled mixture of gaseous and liquid carbon dioxide will pass into tank B. When the piston reaches the minimum stroke, close valve B and open valve A, see fig. 3

No. At point A, the fluid is high pressure liquid phase at ambient temperature. At closure of valve B, it is low pressure mixed-phase stream at some lower temperature. Getting back to point A requires both recondensation (path B-C) and recompression stages (path C-A), which you have indicated on your P-V diagram, but failed to address in your process description.

[BestChance]

I was wrong. Sorry. Thank you for your attention.

[studiot]

1 hour ago, BestChance said:

I was wrong. Sorry. Thank you for your attention.

First class +1

 

[John Cuthber]

On 1/22/2022 at 5:16 AM, BestChance said:

Now let's let the piston go down.

Why would it do that?

[mistermack]

21 hours ago, TheVat said:

Isn't Bestchance a sock puppet of Erik2014, and this is a clone of this earlier thread?

Don't be silly. Erik2014 would have got patents on the idea, and would be churning out thousands of evaporation/condensation generators by now. I'm surprised I haven't seen them in the shops. 

The prior disclosure will make it impossible for bestchance to make any money out of the invention though. Once you've made your idea public, it becomes public property, without a patent.

[swansont]

22 hours ago, TheVat said:

Isn't Bestchance a sock puppet of Erik2014, and this is a clone of this earlier thread?

 

!

Moderator Note

Yes, and no. Same poster, but unlike before details are being provided in the thread. (unsure why a new account was needed; the old one has been deactivated)

Let’s focus on the discussion and not these trivialities

 

[Genady]

1 minute ago, swansont said:

!

Moderator Note

Yes, and no. Same poster, but unlike before details are being provided in the thread. (unsure why a new account was needed; the old one has been deactivated)

Let’s focus on the discussion and not these trivialities

 

There is nothing to discuss anymore, is there? The OP has conceded:

6 hours ago, BestChance said:

I was wrong. Sorry. Thank you for your attention.