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Mars gravity issue


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  • Kevin_Hall changed the title to Mars gravity issue
6 minutes ago, Kevin_Hall said:

Mars gravity is 3.721 m/s2, which is about 2.65 less than Earth's gravity
How could Mars low gravity problem be solved? 
 

What problem?

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42 minutes ago, Genady said:
48 minutes ago, Kevin_Hall said:

Mars gravity is 3.721 m/s2, which is about 2.65 less than Earth's gravity
How could Mars low gravity problem be solved? 
 

What problem?

I agree, Mars has a high gravity problem, as far as human use is concerned. It takes a huge amount of energy to take off from Mars. Not as bad as the Earth, but huge nonetheless. 

The Moon is far easier. The Apollo missions could take off and get home with very little fuel.

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23 minutes ago, mistermack said:

I agree, Mars has a high gravity problem, as far as human use is concerned. It takes a huge amount of energy to take off from Mars. Not as bad as the Earth, but huge nonetheless. 

The Moon is far easier. The Apollo missions could take off and get home with very little fuel.

Ahh, that problem... (my emphasis.)

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1 hour ago, Genady said:

What problem?

How are future colonialists going to overcome Mars's gravity? Low gravity will definitely affect their bodies.
I mean this problem. Beg my pardon for not having fully described my question. 

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We really know nothing about the effect of low gravity on the body. What research we have regards the micro-gravity environments of LEO. It would be folly to interpolate between these 1G and 0G environment data points. 

Another reason to go to the moon first, and get intermediate data points.

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35 minutes ago, Kevin_Hall said:

How are future colonialists going to overcome Mars's gravity?

You need to be even more specific than that. It depends what kind of colony you are talking about. A working colony of adults would probably cope with the low gravity fairly well. The record stay on the space station is 437 days, but that's effectively zero gravity. With the substantial gravity on Mars, one might guess that you could stay fairly healthy over five to ten years. 

A breeding colony would be a totally different story. Nobody knows how children would develop, in Mars gravity. I can't see how it will ever be ethical to try it. I suppose you could take some chimps there, maybe a few pregnant females, and observe the development. But my guess is that it will never be ethical to do it with humans. (not exactly ethical with chimps).

I've often thought that Mars might one day be a great place for a retirement colony. When you get really old and feeble, a lower-gravity environment might be a great option. 

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2 hours ago, mistermack said:

You need to be even more specific than that. It depends what kind of colony you are talking about. A working colony of adults would probably cope with the low gravity fairly well. The record stay on the space station is 437 days, but that's effectively zero gravity. With the substantial gravity on Mars, one might guess that you could stay fairly healthy over five to ten years. 

A breeding colony would be a totally different story. Nobody knows how children would develop, in Mars gravity. I can't see how it will ever be ethical to try it. I suppose you could take some chimps there, maybe a few pregnant females, and observe the development. But my guess is that it will never be ethical to do it with humans. (not exactly ethical with chimps).

I've often thought that Mars might one day be a great place for a retirement colony. When you get really old and feeble, a lower-gravity environment might be a great option. 

Though it would presumably accelerate osteoporosis, eroding the gain.

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6 hours ago, Genady said:

What problem?

Regulars will know I remain unconvinced of pretty much everything about Mars colonies, from the economics to the fundamental reasons for doing it. I'm sure low gravity would present problems - not all would be deal breaking scale problems except if viability of a colony is already doubtful (which I do;) you don't want any unresolved issues like that.

Problems from low gravity? Some kinds of physical labour will be more difficult; we rely a lot on friction from being held down by gravity to get traction and leverage when we engage in physical activities. But some kinds will be easier - if you have a good grip on something (and traction) it will be lighter to lift. But outdoors you'll be wearing a spacesuit - more weight, so better traction but more dead weight... err, dead mass (momentum/inertia) to carry, plus the restrictive movement and thick gloves, so dexterity will be difficult. Indoors - very high or padded ceilings?

I recall seeing estimates of "ordinary" manual tasks taking about 3x longer in a spacesuit, I suppose in zero-gee - I'm not sure if that included getting in and out of them and time spent on suit maintenance. Maybe the suits can have power assist - but cost more, weigh more, have more things to maintain and to wear out and replace and fail. But if they need to become, in effect, robots with people in them to work efficiently, it may be better to leave out the people.

We don't know how Mars gravity might affect long term health, or how gestation and childhood growth and development might be affected. Like some other commenters I think it will be better to figure that out before committing to any colonisation attempts.

If it comes down to it some kind of centrifuge habitat arrangement might be needed to enable colonisation, which would make habitat construction under exceptionally difficult conditions a lot more difficult.

I think there is a LOT of basic preliminary work that hasn't been done but needs to be to even know enough to judge if colonisation of Mars can be viable. I haven't even seen so much as a comprehensive list of the essential minerals a colony would require, let alone any decent mineral surveys mapping their locations, the extent of reserves in them or what will be required to exploit them. The "bootstraps" approach - just go there and then figure things out as you go - isn't really an option; it seems like the worst possible kind of planning and management for safety and success in such extreme circumstances.

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Root issue is that our evolution didn't involve living in or transitioning between different gravities. Best results will come from adjusting our genetics or otherwise treating the cells. At the end of the day any sensor can be manipulated.

Stints in artificial gravity may be enough though for the initial colonization effort.

Jupiter will be the real challenge.

Edited by Endy0816
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On 1/10/2022 at 5:31 PM, Externet said:
On 1/10/2022 at 11:35 AM, TheVat said:

In fact it's cold as hell...

Really ?   How do you know the temperature in hell ? 

Elton John's Rocket Man said so ...
( so did William Shatner's )

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know at least three ways.
The first is for wakefulness, the second and third for sleep.
1. Simple weights. Yes, it’s not very convenient, but it’s not at all expensive and you don’t need to invent anything new. Just a grug on the arms, legs and torso.
2. Sleep centrifuge. And it can be designed in the image of a capsule hotel, so several people can be in one centrifuge.
3. Mini subway. The principle is similar to a centrifuge, which allows you to allocate a place to sleep for several dozen people at once, but much more expensive.

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