StringJunky Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Just noticed Russian Tochka missiles used in the railway massacre are green and the Ukrainian version is grey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurieAG Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 7 hours ago, StringJunky said: Just noticed Russian Tochka missiles used in the railway massacre are green and the Ukrainian version is grey. https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-captured-russia-missiles-fired-them-back-cnn-2022-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 8 hours ago, StringJunky said: Just noticed Russian Tochka missiles used in the railway massacre are green and the Ukrainian version is grey. ...it does not matter what color missile is... but what satellites are recording second by second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, LaurieAG said: https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-captured-russia-missiles-fired-them-back-cnn-2022-3 In your link, it was Uragan missiles the Ukrainians took. Tochka missiles are part of their amoury, which were supplied to them by the Russians in more peaceful times. Edited April 9, 2022 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 This is a horrible tragic incident. One of many. But who would have thought that innocent people could be injured or killed in a war? It hardly seems possible. I’m sure if Zelensky had known that a couple of months ago, he would have done some sort of deal to give up on NATO membership in the future, instead of opting for the invasion. But how could he possibly have known? Why wasn’t he told that war was a horrible thing? This is nothing to do with him! It wasn’t a lack of caring or any ability to see the obvious that guided his actions. It was his courage, leadership and grace under pressure. So I’m told. Nobody would have been killed if I’d been President. That’s probably why I wouldn’t make it as a politician. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.C.MacSwell Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 14 minutes ago, mistermack said: This is a horrible tragic incident. One of many. But who would have thought that innocent people could be injured or killed in a war? It hardly seems possible. I’m sure if Zelensky had known that a couple of months ago, he would have done some sort of deal to give up on NATO membership in the future, instead of opting for the invasion. But how could he possibly have known? Why wasn’t he told that war was a horrible thing? This is nothing to do with him! It wasn’t a lack of caring or any ability to see the obvious that guided his actions. It was his courage, leadership and grace under pressure. So I’m told. Nobody would have been killed if I’d been President. That’s probably why I wouldn’t make it as a politician. Exactly! Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani fleeing his country with a bag of cash is the real hero of our time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 I don't think he'll ever understand, JC. NATO is a defensive military alliance which, through Article 5, helps prevent what is happening in the Ukraine. You don't see Russia invading Romania, Poland or the Baltic states do you ? They only invade or threaten non-NATO states like Ukraine and Finland. And then Mistermack, and Russia, wonder why those countries want to join a defensive alliance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, MigL said: NATO is a defensive military alliance Words which mean nothing, when push comes to shove. We defended ourselves against Iraq's weapons of mass destriction. The words meant nothing. They were there to soothe the gullible. NATO bombed Serbia. Did Serbia attack a NATO member? (not that I have a problem with that) The principle of defence is there for public consumption, it doesn't mean a damn thing in the real world. 37 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said: Exactly! Afghanistan President Ashraf Ghani fleeing his country with a bag of cash is the real hero of our time. Much like the Allies did. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Mistermack, you are dragging this way off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 2 minutes ago, StringJunky said: Mistermack, you are dragging this way off topic. I'm replying to previous posts. Nobody has stuck to the OP question in this thread. The US response? Do very little, and make money doing it. Like always. The US waited years in WW1 to see which way the wind was blowing. And were content to watch for years as the REAL bully, Hitler, plough through country after country, murdering as he went, and they only took action when the Japanese bombed them, and Hitler declared war on them. So the answer to the OP should be obvious. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, mistermack said: This is a horrible tragic incident. One of many. But who would have thought that innocent people could be injured or killed in a war? It hardly seems possible. I’m sure if Zelensky had known that a couple of months ago, he would have done some sort of deal to give up on NATO membership in the future, instead of opting for the invasion. But how could he possibly have known? Why wasn’t he told that war was a horrible thing? This is nothing to do with him! It wasn’t a lack of caring or any ability to see the obvious that guided his actions. It was his courage, leadership and grace under pressure. So I’m told. ...disgusting... absolutely astonishing disgusting.. ..you blame victim.. instead of mass murdered and war criminal V.P... (let's his name be forgotten for eternity!) 1 hour ago, mistermack said: Nobody would have been killed if I’d been President. ...because you would have done what Yanukovych did... steal the money and flee... Edited April 9, 2022 by Sensei 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sensei said: ..because you would have done what Yanukovych did... steal the money and flee... Would that have been worse ? It's the Ukrainian way. Wikipedia has a whole section on Ukrainian corruption : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine -4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, mistermack said: Would that have been worse ? ...looking your way.. anybody attacks your country, you should immediately surrender.. nobody will die.. no buildings will be destroyed etc. etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 1 minute ago, Sensei said: ...looking your way.. anybody attacks your country, you should immediately surrender.. nobody will die.. no buildings will be destroyed etc. etc.. No, I'm not French. If you have a brain, you weigh up the odds. Especially when the lives of the innocents depend on you. Only the brainless would fight no matter what. As I posted earlier, MacArthur ran for his life, when he saw the Japanese coming in the Philippines. Shouting "I will return" once he was safe. That's what heroes do. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Faulty premise, Mack, that passive acceptance of invasion means no lives lost. If Putin expands his empire, you really believe no one will die as a consequence? Hint: look at the nation Putin currently rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 1 hour ago, mistermack said: No, I'm not French. If you have a brain, you weigh up the odds. Especially when the lives of the innocents depend on you. Only the brainless would fight no matter what. As I posted earlier, MacArthur ran for his life, when he saw the Japanese coming in the Philippines. Shouting "I will return" once he was safe. That's what heroes do. Okay enough with the bigotry! Is it at all possible for you to say anything without having to make ad hom attacks toward somebody? Why are you so angry? Take it from someone who knows, it isn't healthy. FYI this is a science site, so it's assumed that everyone does in fact have a brain. If you're trying to say that only stupid people will disagree with you, then you'll just be living in a fantasy world where everyone is stupid, except you and the concept of common denominator means nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 10 minutes ago, TheVat said: Faulty premise, Mack, that passive acceptance of invasion means no lives lost. If Putin expands his empire, you really believe no one will die as a consequence? Hint: look at the nation Putin currently rules. My premise faulty? Take a look at yours. My wish was that Zelensky had been enough of a leader to do a deal to AVOID an invasion. I never said that he should have surrendered once invaded. It wouldn't be relevant, if he had done the deal. I WOULD surrender if I was in charge of Mariupol right now. But then, if I was in charge of the Russian invasion, I would never have attacked it any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) You assume no invasion would happen if surrender came first. You have a valid opinion there, but as repeatedly explained to you already, you cannot validly assert it as fact. Edited April 9, 2022 by iNow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 20 minutes ago, mistermack said: My premise faulty? Take a look at yours. My wish was that Zelensky had been enough of a leader to do a deal to AVOID an invasion. The more you write, the more rubbish we read... The "deal" proposed by the opponent was "give us half the country and f**k off" (Crimea, Donbas, etc., basically everything east of the Dnieper).. Any such "deal" would put him in position of the "traitor" and "the worstest president of Ukraine ever"... just because of signing it.. From perspective of time he should have been better off shooting himself than signing such a "deal" as you propose.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermack Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 In a way, Zelensky if very like Saddam Hussein. Saddam had NO weapons of mass destruction. Zelensky had NO chance of joining NATO. Both were threatened with invasion. Both were offered a deal that would cost them NOTHING. Zelensky, to abandon NATO membership that was never going to happen. Saddam, to allow inspectors full access, looking for WOMD that were not there. Both refused, because looking macho was more important than the lives of their people. And both ended up fighting a catastrophic war that need never have happened. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endy0816 Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Good odds Putin would never have been satisfied. He would just keep on annexing surrounding lands piecemeal with some dubious justification or another. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Just now, Endy0816 said: Good odds Putin would never have been satisfied. He would just keep on annexing surrounding lands piecemeal with some dubious justification or another. Like the Chinese model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 I find it sad that you have criticism for the actions of the Ukrainian President, US actions in the Middle East as well as WW1 and WW2, and even the French ( ? ), yet not one word of criticism for the idiot whose actions are the root cause of so many dead Ukrainians and Russians, V Putin. Blame anyone but the real culprit. Sad, and telling, that you and he think alike. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 3 hours ago, mistermack said: No, I'm not French. ! Moderator Note If we could discuss complicated issues with you within the rules, it would be best. Since you continue to thumb your nose at our rule against disparaging groups, we're going to carry on without your input for a couple of weeks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 2 hours ago, Endy0816 said: Good odds Putin would never have been satisfied. He would just keep on annexing surrounding lands piecemeal with some dubious justification or another. Very true. And who says it will even end with the Ukraine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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