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Echo Chambers...


BlightedFox
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Heterodoxy,

I had a conversation with someone who manages engineers (owner operator, of a small prosperous firm), and I couldn't help but ask why they can be so incredibly ignorant, and how more than a few of them could support the political aspirations of imbeciles, con artists, and grifters. His explanation was right to the point.
They were never trained, nor need critical thinking skills. They are trained in a very hard set of rules as to the way the world is, and that those rules are not to be questioned. They aren't scientists, and have no need for hypothesis, and testing. they are there to implement already known factors, and do so with high effectiveness. Material science as it turns out, is not an engineering field.

To reference "Real Genius." Laslo believed that the answers were the answers to everything.

Politics is philosophy. There are no perfect answers, and there are no concrete answers. There is only philosophy.
And as one might realize, the more literacy in the various philosophical positions as such, the better equipped to understand it you become.

Without an ideal form, you have no aspirations, and no path forward. You are incapable of construction, and incapable of meaningful repair. You lack the requisite tools.
However, the old addage applies, "If all you have is a hammer, then everything starts to look like a nail."

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Do you know what they all believe?
Do you have a meaningful understanding of the various ideal world's people are trying to construct? Their conflicts? Their inadequacies? Their Material and Cultural Interests?)
Can you construct a version of your own reading? More contextualized as a result of having read the many other prescriptions?

Heterodoxy, as it turns out, is being able to ask questions that make other people uncomfortable. Breaking the molds.
Does this forum even come close to showing that ability?
If you don't know what the heterodox opinions are, can you really even suggest you have managed to climb past the first peak of the Dunning Kruger model? I would argue, absolutely not!
I understand completely that the political establishments of the world are inherently conservative in their general maintenance of the status-quo-ante. And that serves their systems of power well. Perhaps thinking that there is nothing else is a form of ignorance. That change is inevitable, and even required. And that understanding change is infinitely more important than discussing the narrow pigeon hole that is the overton window of political establishment. Have you read anything else? Do you know about anything else? Or do you perpetuate this notion of political discourse as written by those who have not, and are occupying the interests of those who would see them removed entirely?

Liberalism, Classical-Liberalism, Neoliberalism
Conservatism, Classical Conservatism, Neo-Conservatism
Anarchism, Anarcho-Communism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Anarcho-Socialism, Anarcho-Capitalism
Socialism, Libertarian-Socialism, Democratic-Socialism (Fabian Socialism), Ricardian-Socialism
Capitalism, Crony-Capitalism, Laissez-Faire-Capitalism, Social-Democratic-Capitalism
Classical Economics, vs Neoclassical Economics, vs Keynesian Economics, vs Neoliberal Economics
*Post Keynesian, Georgist, Minskian, etc...

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ex.

Political Ratchet Effect, (how to manipulate overton windows and blind a populous to possibilities)
Horseshoe Theory, (how to convince the illiterate that they know better) *How to maintain ignorance in the populous.
Political Pragmatism, (how to make the argument that only killing 5 is better than killing 10, when the answer is obviously zero)

All designed to ensure you maintain somebody else's power, and are ill-equipped to do anything else.
*Unless of course, you actually believe that everything is just PEACHY. (I doubt that very much)

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14 minutes ago, BlightedFox said:

 They are trained in a very hard set of rules as to the way the world is, and that those rules are not to be questioned. They aren't scientists, and have no need for hypothesis, and testing. 

Science and the scientific methodology of course is a discipline in eternal progress.

17 minutes ago, BlightedFox said:

Politics is philosophy. There are no perfect answers, and there are no concrete answers. There is only philosophy.
And as one might realize, the more literacy in the various philosophical positions as such, the better equipped to understand it you become.

Science is what we know; philosophy is what we don't know. Bertrand Russell.

The man of science has learned to believe in justification, not by faith, but by verification. Thomas H. Huxley 

Scientists are explorers. Philosophers are tourists. Richard Feynman

19 minutes ago, BlightedFox said:

However, the old addage applies, "If all you have is a hammer, then everything starts to look like a nail."

Isn't there a hardware store somewhere close to you?

26 minutes ago, BlightedFox said:

Heterodoxy, as it turns out, is being able to ask questions that make other people uncomfortable. Breaking the molds.
Does this forum even come close to showing that ability?

I don't get uncomfortable when people ask me questions. I am also not a scientist. But being always open to learning, I generally reject supernatural and paranormal attempts at explanation, due to the total lack of supporting evidence. In fact in my experience in science forums, It is mostly those putting unevidenced hypothetical explanations that get uncomfortable. 

33 minutes ago, BlightedFox said:

If you don't know what the heterodox opinions are, can you really even suggest you have managed to climb past the first peak of the Dunning Kruger model? I would argue, absolutely not!

   Hmmm, Interesting. How about those with the opinion that we have never been to the Moon? Or that 9/11 was an inside job? Or that the world/Earth is flat? Or that fairies exist at the bottom of your garden? Or any amount of religious claims etc?

41 minutes ago, BlightedFox said:

*Unless of course, you actually believe that everything is just PEACHY. (I doubt that very much)

Everything in reality has never been peachy. We can always improve things and systems under which many of us live. All some of us can do, is help out when we can to those less fortunate, and express our pleasures or displeasures at the ballot box. One thing that always amazes me is the general persistant criticism/ derision of politicians. I always ask myself, "where do politicians come from?" 

If I may, and as a poor old retired maintenance Fitter/Machinist/Welder, why do you act as if the whole world is your nail and all you have is a hammer? Life is short matey, take it easy, enjoy and respect and learn from the many professionals we do have here....put your hammer away. There are many different types of nails. Or if you like, take an aspro, and have a good lie down before you chose to interact on the forum. Have fun!!!

 

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19 minutes ago, beecee said:

If I may, and as a poor old retired maintenance Fitter/Machinist/Welder, why do you act as if the whole world is your nail and all you have is a hammer? Life is short matey, take it easy, enjoy and respect and learn from the many professionals we do have here....put your hammer away. There are many different types of nails. Or if you like, take an aspro, and have a good lie down before you chose to interact on the forum. Have fun!!!

 

What a load of illiterate dribble. (yes I cut most of it, no that doesn't really matter, I'm referring to the entire lot of garbage)
Contrarian from ignorance?

I add, you subtract. 
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract.
I add, you subtract...

Rinse and repeat!

Intelligence uses the additive method.
Considering at no point in being here has anybody added [thing 1] to anything I've written (or bothered to engage with any of it substantively), you can understand how I think you're all a bunch of ignoramuses.

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I love the inferred ad hominem argument...
I am neither retired, nor old. And I have been many things beyond just that which you proclaim is the profession of a lesser individual.
I am better read than you. That is plainly obvious. And you continue to prove it repeatedly. With whatever BS semantic posturing trash this is.

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You mock philosophy even though politics is almost all philosophy. (perhaps you should go find a hobby you can actually comprehend)
Or did you miss that part where almost all political ideations originated from the best philosophers? Yeah, that's apparently lost to those who don't know how to read.

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Thank you for proving the entire point I was making without missing a beat. You are incredibly obtuse.
I doubt you know the orthodox theories, much less being able to engage with heterodox ones... That much is obvious.
Why are you even in here? You pretend to know better having never read anything...

Is this forum nothing but the ignorant and illiterate, so far reaching from even a basic reading level on political theory? I mean, good gawd WTF?
You people are wholly disappointing. No wonder political ignorance and stupidity is propagating so feverishly in the world. Nobody reads a goddamned thing about any of it. And somehow, you think you know what you're talking about...

Maybe when professors complain about the level of ignorance shown by their students to refrain from uncomfortable topics, this is how they feel.

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Go ahead, and nit pick some more stupid, for the semantic dumb again... I no longer care.
Literate people are apparently a problem for you... (and that's rather telling)

I apologize for speaking too far above your reading level. I understand that this can be difficult.
But you don't deserve respect that you didn't earn (nobody does). Not engaging with topics and information in a substantive way kinda makes your disrespect inevitable. You earned it.

Have fun in your echo chamber.
Don't pretend you're actually engaging in intelligent discourse, nobody who has read more than you will ever be allowed in.
And that's pretty much a recipe for stupid.

They can moderate the hell out of me, I certainly don't give a damn. I know how much I've read, I know how little you've read. And I can plainly see how ignorance defends itself from knowledge.

Adios Monsior Cupcake!!!! (I'll go back where intelligent and literate people reside now, it ain't here!)

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