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"Because it's warm out" vs. "because it's within my rights".


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36 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

How is that about the justification of transgressing dress codes?

Are you just rabbiting on about girls being mean to guys, or what?

That's an easy fictional character to hang anything on, as is "the average gal". They can't object to your generalizations, because they don't exist.

Think of it as being like the average motion of an air molecule. Some of them are moving in one direction, another in the opposite, but I'm referring to what appear to be the norms.

 

I'm not just "rabbiting" on or whatever; each sex has its positive traits and its negative traits on average; (and in retrospect that last part of that earlier post may have been pushing the bounds of topic relevance) but I think we need to take into account what these traits are before pretending any response to this issue has to be "gender-neutral" and that all effects of hormones and anatomy on behaviour should be ignored.

 

This thread was originally intended, just to be clear, to focus on the "is the 'because it's too hot out' claim" and whether or not it's sincere. I'm not sure in retrospect to what extent discussing the merits of whether or not to consider such things "gender neutral" is within the realm of acceptable thread branching.

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2 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

This thread was originally intended, just to be clear, to focus on the "is the 'because it's too hot out' claim" and whether or not it's sincere.

A claim that you have not established is used to any large extent

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Actually, I'd been making "human nature isn't gender neutral" a central plank of my reasoning since this early in the thread.

To me it looks like a passing comment the first time you used the phrase, and it wasn’t in the OP

 

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

I wasn't referring to "every" guy in my reasoning, I was referring to the average guy.

How does “the other sex has never been known to take a woman staring at him as anything other than a compliment” (bold by me) get interpreted as “the average guy”

 

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

How would you even prove a guy is being leered at AND doesn't enjoy it?

You could ask people (though your original claim was stared and not leered, so the goalposts have moved), and disprove the statement.

The question is, how would you be able to support the claim that this never happens, as you are expected to do?

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4 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Think of it as being like the average motion of an air molecule. Some of them are moving in one direction, another in the opposite, but I'm referring to what appear to be the norms.

Works for inanimate objects to establish averages for calculation. Does not work for sentient beings to establish behavioural norms.

 

4 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

but I think we need to take into account what these traits are before pretending any response to this issue has to be "gender-neutral"

Who was doing that? What is it you're responding to? For that matter, how do you demonstrate 'what these traits are' through unsubstantiated generalizations about who reacts in what way to being the object of which kind of attention for what reason?

4 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

This thread was originally intended, just to be clear, to focus on the "is the 'because it's too hot out' claim" and whether or not it's sincere.

Science? You claimed that some people - more precisely, that some men -  

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What if an individual guy feels warm more easily than others? I know at the office I'm often the one always cranking up the thermostat the lowest in winter and the A/C the highest in summer. (Luckily, I have an office room to myself.) How much biological variance, typically, is there in the extent to which you "feel" the heat?

are more sensitive to heat than others and might require more ventilation than 'the average guy', which might therefore be mistakenly taken for display. Such a condition may equally well exist in women - in fact, if you take menopause into consideration, much more so - biologically. How, then, can science determine the degree of sincerity when either sex claims it as a reason to remove items of clothing?

Standards of dress have nothing to do with science. Objectively, anyone who feels too hot should be free to remove excess clothing and go naked anywhere they liked, any time they liked (except laboratories, recycling depots, construction sites and similarly hazardous environments). Culturally, some societies are offended by female faces, others are offended by male genitalia, and there is no scientific basis for either prejudice.

 

Edited by Peterkin
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