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How to pray?


Istiak
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14 hours ago, Peterkin said:

 

I didn't say both were correct. I said the analogy of Newton-Einstein and Jesus-Muhammad was good: in both cases, the person who lived later had the other's ideas to draw on.

However,

With science, we can test hypotheses and measure the degree of accuracy of any prediction. 

With prophets, we have no way of measuring or testing the "correctness" of their pronouncements and denouncments. We have no standard of comparison for any two prophets' degree of accuracy; we don't even know how to interpret the meaning of their prophecies. 

I'm suggesting contentment as an hypothesis in how to interpret their meaning and see beyond the 'so called' contradictions.

"I didn't say both were correct. I said the analogy of Newton-Einstein and Jesus-Muhammad was good: in both cases, the person who lived later had the other's ideas to draw on."

Einstein had the benefit of understanding the language Newton used and could build on that. 

Muhammad only understood the concept of what Jesus was trying to teach, not the language; so he had to build again.

It's remarkable how similar the building's look with no blueprints, measurements or testing... 

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44 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Muhammad only understood the concept of what Jesus was trying to teach, not the language; so he had to build again.

He understood far more than the concept: he understood the importance of faith as a unifying force - which Jesus apparently had not, but Paul did and Constantine used. Of course, that was before Christian sects broke away in all directions and started fighting one another.

The language of prophets is not an issue, since they speak to different peoples, under different historical conditions. I think we've pretty much exhausted any commonality between religion and physics.

Edited by Peterkin
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15 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

The language of prophets is not an issue, since they speak to different peoples, under different historical conditions. I think we've pretty much exhausted any commonality between religion and physics.

I'm not your enemy, winter is your enemy...

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23 hours ago, noquacks said:

How to Pray? Well, I was taught how by the nuns at the Catholic school I attended. So, I guess I was following directions as best a child could. And i continued to pray that way for.......another 45 years or so. Thats how I pray, not sure how you pray. Maybe there are different methods. But my experience is that praying does not work. Mathew, 7.7, "ask and it shall be given to you". I asked, begged, knelt, bowed, dutifully, in subservience but never received what I requested. So, disappointed, I quit praying for favors. Does it work for you? It has been shown that praying does not work. There is no evidence that it does so. Despite this, I kept praying for 50 years or so til I read one book too many. 

 

In our youth, me and two close friends were just walking around the living areas of a mid-size swedish town and ended up in an apartment talkning to some foreigners that turned out to be christians. Not long after we walked in the door, one of them hurried to another room, kneeled at his bed and started to pray in what I suppose was his native language.

Actually, I may have imagined that he kneeled, and that it was in front of his bunk bed, I could've added that to the memory later. But why would I do that, I wasn't an easily impressionable person, I wasn't in an emotionally strong situation, and I certainly had no interest in anything christian being true 'cause eventually I'd discuss it with my mother and she'd get one right.

Considering my personality, It's more likely that I already needed to pee. When we sat down in the kitchen I thought that five minutes is enough before you ask to use the bathroom. And I had a look to my right when I opened the door. No freedom, no responsibility. I could tell that it wasn't "the tounge of the holy spirit" though, that sounds like jibberish and christians scare their kids with at meetings.

A couple of decades later, an acquaintance with drug habits visited me in my 25 square meter apartment. I had lost my driving license and was about to sell the car, so I simply gave him the box from the trunk, with a new axe, start cables, etc. Stuff that meth users love. In retrospect, I could've put some extra stuff in it first, for example bought some food cans. Was there a quality rope in the box? Anyway, later in the evening, after he left, I suddenly felt a lot of love for him.

More than I have experienced earlier or later. Of course, this means nothing, I suspect that normal people could walk around with this feeling everyday. You've learned to handle it, it's routine. My response was to ask myself what I should do to avoid wasting it (not the feeling, the situation). Without any God answering, I reluctantly went down on my knees and even did some of the other silly things, because that's what you're supposed to do. No more than ten seconds though The next day, I read in the paper that he was almost killed that night. Two guys put his head on the front of a car and used the hood to bash his head in.

Add to this the fact that my mother often has told me the day after I've been in deep sh-t, that she woke up and knew that I had put myself in danger. The percentage of failure is more interesting than the number of successes, and it's a low number. Add other minor miracles in my life. Adding people that's believing/religious is harder, even if they're reasonable, and loving, is harder.

So, the question, what is "praying"? In swedish translations of the bible, our word means "to ask for" in the simplest way, no different from asking for more food or a cigarette. Negative if there's a deeper meaning and "praying" captures it better, positive if "prayer" is a way to make us sound better in front of God when he want honesty. In the same way "having faith" is translated to just "believing".

My best conclusion, based on my own experience and the bible which says that that no man seeks God, he seeks man, the wind (sometimes translated as "the spirit") blows wherever it wants, that faith in God/Jesus is a gift in itself, is that "supernatural" things happen and when they do we try to control them. Of course, the quote that whenever two or more people gather in my name, I'll be among them, could be true. You'll have to ask a christian about that.

In that case, the best way to find out is having the courage to try it. Sometimes christian books, and the bible, don't even call it courage, but foolishness. In a passage, Paul praises God that he chose the one's that are as children, to put the wise to shame. In another one, Jesus says that you have to become like a child to enter the kingdom of God. I would have asked him if I was there: aren't children supposed to be curious? In others, God says that all knowledge will be gone when it has filled it's purpose, and all that will be left is hope, faith and love, the biggest of them love.

Before my attempts of decent logic get too bad (too late), i.e. rambling (too late for that too), I'll end with a last comment. Generally, you turn to Jesus when you have no choice. This could happen in at least two ways: 1. You're life is so down the drain to the point where you have to put your blind trust in him. It could be the last moments of your life. What he requires, everything, isn't that important anymore then. 2. You meet him, he shows himself to you before you take this step yourself.

I suspect that all religious people have a combination of more or less of those two, not caring about 1 enough according to God, trying to make 2 happen themselves, and that the rest, to get to 100%, has to be filled with the unability to reason, easily turned into worse thing. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. An interesting question becomes if there's a God that helps these people more than others.

Another interesting question, part of the other, is if they deserve it or if they're just spoiled. Or anti-human to begin with. For ordinary people, learning to break free happens with more or less magnitude, and more or less frequently, while you're growing up. Revolt, the knowledge to know when to do it, and how much, sticks in your reflexes and makes you a better person.

Edited by potrzebie
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On 9/6/2021 at 2:57 PM, Conscious Energy said:

You should believe in Nature, and that Science is our best religion to explain it's functions

Most definitions of "religion" involve supernatural facets (omnipotence, unobservable deities, etc). Since science is focused on the natural world (as you claim we should believe), I think your use of the term "best religion" wrt science is highly inaccurate.

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46 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Most definitions of "religion" involve supernatural facets (omnipotence, unobservable deities, etc). Since science is focused on the natural world (as you claim we should believe), I think your use of the term "best religion" wrt science is highly inaccurate.

There were times when animals, planets or the sun were worshiped as gods. All natural entities. 

When Science gave every answers on physical functions, how and why spacetime expands, what is the origion of energy, does the universe finite or infinte, discovered the answer on how the Universe begun exactly and why, realized all of the Laws of Nature, the religious aspects of science (for me) will deminish and we will be left with pure knowledge. I pray for this times to come. 

Until that, it is up to me what and how I believe, It is my basic human right I think, if it harms no one.

Definition of religious

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality
Edited by Conscious Energy
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20 minutes ago, Conscious Energy said:

There were times when animals, planets or the sun were worshiped as gods. All natural entities. 

When Science gave every answers on physical functions, how and why spacetime expands, what is the origion of energy, does the universe finite or infinte, discovered the answer on how the Universe begun exactly and why, realized all of the Laws of Nature, the religious aspects of science (for me) will deminish and we will be left with pure knowledge. I pray for this times to come. 

Until that, it is up to me what and how I believe, It is my basic human right I think, if it harms no one.

Definition of religious

 (Entry 1 of 2)

1: relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality

My comment wasn't about your beliefs at all, since I don't care what you believe. I thought you might be interested in a more accurate way to distinguish between your definitions of religion and science. And your version of religious mentions "faithful", so you might want to look that up as well. It has NOTHING to do with science.

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