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Pfizer Vaccine: Long Term Side Effects


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One interesting point that has come up in a roundtable discussion that some folks are more willing to take treatments, even experimental ones, rather than getting vaccinated. It does point to the fact that a proportion of the broader public makes a fundamental distinction between chemicals given as part of a treatment (say antibodies) and those given as part of a vaccine, even if the former are known to have adverse reactions.

Edit: I should add that some also object to the vaccine because they think they are made with material from aborted fetuses, which is another surprisingly common misconception.

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Recent study on Pfizer side effects in males aged 12-15:

Boys more at risk from Pfizer jab side-effect than Covid, suggests study

US researchers say teenagers are more likely to get vaccine-related myocarditis than end up in hospital with Covid

"Healthy boys may be more likely to be admitted to hospital with a rare side-effect of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine that causes inflammation of the heart than with Covid itself, US researchers claim.

Their analysis of medical data suggests that boys aged 12 to 15, with no underlying medical conditions, are four to six times more likely to be diagnosed with vaccine-related myocarditis than ending up in hospital with Covid over a four-month period.

Most children who experienced the rare side-effect had symptoms within days of the second shot of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, though a similar side-effect is seen with the Moderna jab. About 86% of the boys affected required some hospital care, the authors said."

Source:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

Edited by Alex_Krycek
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So roughly 10 per million had these events… 1 per 100,000.

They neither discuss how common these events are in the general unvaccinated population for comparison nor acknowledge how much higher the risk from Covid is absent vaccination.

Good times. I’m once again reminded how frequently people seek out information supporting their preexisting conclusions instead of applying any level of rigor or critical thought to the actual scale and context of the problem whatsoever.  

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1 hour ago, iNow said:

Good times. I’m once again reminded how frequently people seek out information supporting their preexisting conclusions instead of applying any level of rigor or critical thought to the actual scale and context of the problem whatsoever.  

That's called confirmation bias.  It also includes not considering / dismissing new information that may diverge from or challenge one's established way of thinking.  

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3 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

That's called confirmation bias.  It also includes not considering / dismissing new information that may diverge from or challenge one's established way of thinking.  

The decision as to whether or not to vaccinate secondary school age children seems to be quite finely balanced, if one considers only the risk to each individual child. What may tilt the balance in favour of vaccinating them is the reduction it produces in the level of infection circulating in the population as a whole. UK experience is that levels of infection have shot up since the school term started. 

Throughout this epidemic it has been remarkably hard to get certain segments of US society to recognise that the virus countermeasures are not applied just for the good of the individual, but also for the good of other people who they would otherwise infect.   Given that vaccination cannot prevent infection completely, suppressing it by vaccinating this age group as well seems to be a sensible strategy.  

Edited by exchemist
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8 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Recent study on Pfizer side effects in males aged 12-15:

Boys more at risk from Pfizer jab side-effect than Covid, suggests study

US researchers say teenagers are more likely to get vaccine-related myocarditis than end up in hospital with Covid

"Healthy boys may be more likely to be admitted to hospital with a rare side-effect of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine that causes inflammation of the heart than with Covid itself, US researchers claim.

Their analysis of medical data suggests that boys aged 12 to 15, with no underlying medical conditions, are four to six times more likely to be diagnosed with vaccine-related myocarditis than ending up in hospital with Covid over a four-month period.

Most children who experienced the rare side-effect had symptoms within days of the second shot of Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, though a similar side-effect is seen with the Moderna jab. About 86% of the boys affected required some hospital care, the authors said."

Source:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/10/boys-more-at-risk-from-pfizer-jab-side-effect-than-covid-suggests-study

The upshot if all this is that this is a short-term, not long-term, side effect. And COVID can cause it

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg25133462-800-myocarditis-is-more-common-after-covid-19-infection-than-vaccination/

5 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

That's called confirmation bias.  It also includes not considering / dismissing new information that may diverge from or challenge one's established way of thinking.  

Indeed. 

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2 hours ago, exchemist said:

Throughout this epidemic it has been remarkably hard to get certain segments of US society to recognise that the virus countermeasures are not applied just for the good of the individual, but also for the good of other people who they would otherwise infect.   Given that vaccination cannot prevent infection completely, suppressing it by vaccinating this age group as well seems to be a sensible strategy.  

I think it's understandable in this context when considering this particular demographic.  If parents are faced with a choice: vaccinate your child (which puts the child more at risk for myocarditis than actually becoming ill with Covid according to this study) versus leaving them unvaccinated for the time being and letting them make their own decision when they turn 18, I think it would be very reasonable if they choose the latter option (especially considering that vaccinated adults can still pass on the virus, even though they themselves are at a very low risk of hospitalization).  

Edited by Alex_Krycek
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1 hour ago, Alex_Krycek said:

I think it's understandable in this context when considering this particular demographic.  If parents are faced with a choice: vaccinate your child (which puts the child more at risk for myocarditis than actually becoming ill with Covid according to this study) versus leaving them unvaccinated for the time being and letting them make their own decision when they turn 18, I think it would be very reasonable if they choose the latter option (especially considering that vaccinated adults can still pass on the virus, even though they themselves are at a very low risk of hospitalization).  

Though the findings of that one, non peer reviewed, preprint seem to be contradicted by the link provided in @swansont 's post.

As I say, it seems to be a fine balance of very low risks rather than a choice that is obvious. And then the parents might also to consider the increase in risk to themselves from an unvaccinated child bringing the virus home from school. 

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Also worth factoring in that the US subpopulations with a higher incidence of Covid also happen to be groups where childcare is less affordable and where it's more likely that grandparents are watching children.  And rates of diabetes,  cardiovascular disease, pulmonary disease,  are higher in this older cohort.  Among immigrant groups,  extended family cohabitation is also more common,  with grandparents living in close quarters with grandchildren.   All these factors combine to suggest an urgent need to weigh in the risks of greater virus shedding.  Which does come mainly from the unvaccinated. 

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2 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

vaccinate your child (which puts the child more at risk for myocarditis than actually becoming ill with Covid according to this study)

No, AFAICT that’s not what it said. They compared it to “their 120-day COVID-19 hospitalization risk” which is not the risk of becoming ill with COVID. The were comparing (sort of) risks of being hospitalized

Unless you can say with certainty that COVID will go away soon, the 120-day risk is also not the total risk of hospitalization.

 

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A couple of other issues from a preliminary skim : the paper uses VAERS reporting which is generally problematic as it vastly overestimates events. The authors tried to address theses issues by filtering according to troponin but there is still significant concerns that overstimates are not fully accounted for.

The other issue is only looking at hospitalization as endpoint. Myocarditis after vaccination typically result in mild issues. Conversely, hospitalization from COVID-19 is more frequently associated with severe issues and death. 

 

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