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Do you truly believe modern scientists have written the end of this story?


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9 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Citation please.

In terms of the total mass of the solar system (sans the sun) it is an incredibly large number. Where do you propose getting all this necessary mass to be able to put a match to Jupiter?

I wasn't aware this was an attempt to actually finish science, or this would even be contributed to such a project.  That is what I heard about from the nuclear test from the Manhattan Project.  I am from that area.  If you don't want to believe that, you are more than welcome too.  I see no sense in trying to push the topic to prove it.  I was just shooting the shit.

The second paragraph explains the extra mass problem.  My reference was Star Trek, so I see no sense in attempting to prove that either.  It's perfectly fine with me if you don't like Star Trek.

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19 minutes ago, Conjurer said:

I wasn't aware this was an attempt to actually finish science, or this would even be contributed to such a project.  That is what I heard about from the nuclear test from the Manhattan Project.  I am from that area.  If you don't want to believe that, you are more than welcome too.  I see no sense in trying to push the topic to prove it.  I was just shooting the shit.

The second paragraph explains the extra mass problem.  My reference was Star Trek, so I see no sense in attempting to prove that either.  It's perfectly fine with me if you don't like Star Trek.

 

Edited by zapatos
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On 6/6/2021 at 3:51 PM, OdinSon2k11 said:

What I'm saying is...our star may have ONE huge factor that similar ones they have observed lacked-an orbiting planet harboring INTELLIGENT LIFE 🙂. You can observe similar class stars and THEIR outcomes. What you cannot do is predict the limits of human intelligence and ingenuity. 

All people are saying is that us, all other life on  Earth, the Sun, the solar system, the galaxy and beyond, all effectively have a "use by date." With the universe that use by date is in the range of hundreds of trillions of years. Earth, is about 2 to 3 billion years.

Edited by beecee
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4 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Please let us know when you wish to be taken seriously. Thanks.

For all I know it may still be classified information, or it would require declassification from the US government.  I actually cannot affirm or deny the fact that cockroaches would survive nuclear fallout.  It would be a huge waste of time and resources for the purposes of going on about it in a public forum.  It has been long enough they would probably release those records to you if you flew there and asked them yourself.  Then again, it really wouldn't do you much good unless you are a producer of some kooky science program or something to make it worth your time, money, and effort either.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 7/7/2021 at 12:54 PM, Conjurer said:

Saturn is close to the mass of being able to ignite into a star.  I would just take moving Saturn into the sun to prolong it's life, or for everyone to really go out with flair!  It would beat sitting around for millions of years, just letting it just happen...

 

On 7/8/2021 at 6:18 AM, Conjurer said:

In astronomical terms, 80 isn't a very big number.  You could count it on your fingers and toe's only using them 4 times.  It would most likely be easier just to ignite one of those planets, but I believe Saturn would be a better candidate from it containing mostly hydrogen.  Then we could have a dual star system.

It could be like in the newer version of the Star Trek movie, where they drop something into the star to blow it up, like dark matter containment.  They could rig something like the LHC to launch a microscopic black hole at it to increase the mass and ignite it.  

There are couple of problems to your conjectures.

One.

I find highly unlikely we can physically move any planet into the sun, especially the size of Saturn or even Jupiter.

Two.

Much of Sun’s Nucleosynthesis occurred at the Sun’s CORE, not on the Sun’s surface.

So regardless if you managed to bring Saturn or Jupiter to the Sun, you won’t be able transfer the gases into the Sun’s core.

Three.

If the Red Giant sun is going to strip the Earth’s atmosphere, what do you think the Sun is going to do Saturn’s atmosphere as you bring the planet closer to the red giant?

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50 minutes ago, storyteller said:

So regardless if you managed to bring Saturn or Jupiter to the Sun, you won’t be able transfer the gases into the Sun’s core.

 

I suspect that once Jupiter is brought to the sun, gravity will be able to handle the transfer just fine.

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13 hours ago, zapatos said:

I suspect that once Jupiter is brought to the sun, gravity will be able to handle the transfer just fine.

Like I said before, Stellar Nucleosynthesis occurred at the Sun’s core, not on the surface.

So unless you and conjurer can think of way to move the gas from surface (photosphere) through dense convective zone and then to the radiative zone to eventually to the star’s core.

Each layer of the sun, are hot dense plasma, but each layer below is higher temperature.

 I don’t see this conjecture from conjurer is going to work.

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1 hour ago, storyteller said:

So unless you and conjurer can think of way to move the gas from surface (photosphere) through dense convective zone and then to the radiative zone to eventually to the star’s core.

 

Now I understand. Thanks.

Edited by zapatos
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On 6/6/2021 at 5:29 AM, Phi for All said:

Once our sun leaves its main sequence, I think Mars will be part of the red giant's atmosphere, unless the sun's mass decreases enough to let Mars expand its orbit.

My recollection is that research in the last decade has suggested the Earth may not be engulfed. This as a combination of two factors: the sun will not expand as much as earlier estimates suggested; Earth's orbit will increase slightly, as you noted for Mars, because of the reduced solar mass. I haven't located the relevant paper(s) yet, but will post if I can track it/them down.

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Seems a little early to be worrying about events several billion years in the future ...
I'm trying to decide what to have for lunch tomorrow.

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On 7/29/2021 at 1:36 AM, zapatos said:

Now I understand. Thanks.

I am glad that you understand my reply to conjurer. I just hoped that he does too.

you cannot simply move planets Jupiter and Saturn, and expect that action will transfer all the planets’ gases, particularly hydrogen to the star’s core, where the Stellar Nucleosynthesis take place.

the only thing that I can see happening is new gases will only reach the photosphere surface, where  no Nucleosynthesis take place.

conjurer’s scenario of using Saturn, will only refuel the surface of the sun, not refuel the core.

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1 hour ago, storyteller said:

conjurer’s scenario of using Saturn, will only refuel the surface of the sun, not refuel the core.

Yeah, that's the point I didn't realize. I naively assumed it was like throwing more wood on top of a fire.

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On 7/31/2021 at 5:30 PM, storyteller said:

conjurer’s scenario of using Saturn, will only refuel the surface of the sun, not refuel the core.

 

On 7/31/2021 at 6:45 PM, zapatos said:

Yeah, that's the point I didn't realize. I naively assumed it was like throwing more wood on top of a fire.

The core of the sun is mostly iron and inert, so I don't see the purpose of that.  The core is what makes a star die out, because it cannot sustain a nuclear reaction with such heavy elements.  That is why I think it is more likely that the Earth was the core of a dead star, but one thing at a time...

After I thought about it a while, it would just take nuking Saturn.  That could be done in a couple of years.  The atmosphere is mostly noble gases, so it would start a nuclear chain reaction.  The mass of it has nothing to do with rather it would be able to sustain that chain reaction.  It only makes it to where it can be ignited without an external source.  Low mass doesn't stop nuclear reactions from going off. 
 

The only difference from a hydrogen bomb is that it nukes hydrogen.  The nuclear bomb is just a detonator for it, from smashing uranium together.  Then Saturn could just become a hydrogen bomb, and it has a lot of hydrogen.  It could still take it a long time for it all to detonate, like the sun.    

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1 hour ago, Conjurer said:

The core of the sun is mostly iron and inert, so I don't see the purpose of that. 

The core of the Sun is most definitely not Iron. Our Sun does not even get close in fusion of the  heavier elements. 

Edited by beecee
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6 hours ago, Conjurer said:

The core of the sun is mostly iron and inert, so I don't see the purpose of that. 

If that were the case there wouldn't be fusion going on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_core

hydrogen mass fraction starts to decrease rapidly after the core radius has been reached (it is still about 70% at a radius equal to 25% of the Sun's radius) and inside this, the hydrogen fraction drops rapidly as the core is traversed, until it reaches a low of about 33% hydrogen, at the Sun's center (radius zero).[5] All but 2% of the remaining plasma mass (i.e., 65%) is helium, at the center of the Sun.

 

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10 hours ago, Conjurer said:

The core of the sun is mostly iron and inert, so I don't see the purpose of that.

I think you are confusing the star’s core (or Sun’s core) with our Earth’s core.

 The Earth’s core is made of iron and nickel.

Where as the Sun’s core is made mostly of hydrogen, with helium coming second as the most abundant element.

Most of the Sun’s energy come from thermonuclear fusion that take within the Sun’s core, fusing hydrogen nuclei into helium nuclei. This hydrogen to helium fusion is a form of Stellar Nucleosynthesis known as proton-proton chain reaction. There are many other forms of Stellar Nucleosynthesis, where more massive stars can result in fusion of elements heavier than helium (heavier elements like carbon, nitrogen oxygen, etc), but for the sake of convenience, I rather you just focused on Nucleosynthesis process that take place in the sun.

Eventually, the Sun’s core will run out hydrogen nuclei to fuse, and according to astrophysicists’ predict it will occur 4 to 5 billion years from now. This will cause the Sun to change it structure, leading to the main sequence star evolving into red giant star. 

I don’t see why anyone would be concerned about the sun turning into red giant star, since is so long into the future, and feeling the needs to stop it from occurring.

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14 hours ago, storyteller said:

I think you are confusing the star’s core (or Sun’s core) with our Earth’s core.

 The Earth’s core is made of iron and nickel.

Where as the Sun’s core is made mostly of hydrogen, with helium coming second as the most abundant element.

Most of the Sun’s energy come from thermonuclear fusion that take within the Sun’s core, fusing hydrogen nuclei into helium nuclei. This hydrogen to helium fusion is a form of Stellar Nucleosynthesis known as proton-proton chain reaction. There are many other forms of Stellar Nucleosynthesis, where more massive stars can result in fusion of elements heavier than helium (heavier elements like carbon, nitrogen oxygen, etc), but for the sake of convenience, I rather you just focused on Nucleosynthesis process that take place in the sun.

Eventually, the Sun’s core will run out hydrogen nuclei to fuse, and according to astrophysicists’ predict it will occur 4 to 5 billion years from now. This will cause the Sun to change it structure, leading to the main sequence star evolving into red giant star. 

I don’t see why anyone would be concerned about the sun turning into red giant star, since is so long into the future, and feeling the needs to stop it from occurring.

Oceans boiling off is predicted in only 1 billion years and will probably be other 'early' impacts.

Megaprojects to extend the sun's lifespan, colonize and/or evacuate everyone are likely to take considerable time themselves. Need to get started or time will get away from us.

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