NotYou Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Hi All, One of the pH adjustment programs I use takes the amount of Boron in the water into account. I'm not sure it matters - So I'd like to know if the Boron concentration in pool water affects the amount of Hydrochloric Acid required. If so, how? Is there a formula I can use to adjust for the amount of Boron? Thanks in advance, Buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 42 minutes ago, NotYou said: Hi All, One of the pH adjustment programs I use takes the amount of Boron in the water into account. I'm not sure it matters - So I'd like to know if the Boron concentration in pool water affects the amount of Hydrochloric Acid required. If so, how? Is there a formula I can use to adjust for the amount of Boron? Thanks in advance, Buddy. I don't know about a formula, but this link: https://www.borax.com/BoraxCorp/media/Borax-Main/Resources/Brochures/borates-swimming-pools.pdf seems to contain a lot of information about the use of borates in swimming pools. It seems to act as a buffer, enabling the chlorine to work in its best regime and also to soften the water by binding calcium. If it acts as a buffer, it may be that by using borates you can fully control the pH with them alone and can dispense with the hydrochloric acid entirely, but I stress I am learning all this as I go in response to your queries, so you might want to do some further checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Have you added any boron/ borate to the water? If not, then there's probably not enough to make much difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotYou Posted May 3, 2021 Author Share Posted May 3, 2021 Thanks for the link exchemist, However I know what Boron is used for. I just don't know if the Boron levels affects the amount of Hydrochloric Acid I require. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 2 hours ago, NotYou said: Thanks for the link exchemist, However I know what Boron is used for. I just don't know if the Boron levels affects the amount of Hydrochloric Acid I require. OK, then I can't answer that for sure. But seeing as borate is sold as a buffering agent, it looks to me as if using it may make use of HCl unnecessary. But you would need to check with a supplier of borate, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 4 hours ago, NotYou said: Thanks for the link exchemist, However I know what Boron is used for. I just don't know if the Boron levels affects the amount of Hydrochloric Acid I require. Yes it will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotYou Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Can anyone provide the calculations to compensate for the Boron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 1 hour ago, NotYou said: Can anyone provide the calculations to compensate for the Boron? I certainly can't - and I doubt anyone else can since it seems, from the link I gave you earlier in the thread, to depend on what borate product you are using. The DOT product in the link is said to give a more or less ideal pH on its own. At least, that is how I interpret this passage: "When used in pools at typical dilution, the new formulation has an ideal pH of ≈7.6. Above pH 8, the chlorine becomes much less effective as a sanitizer, but below pH 7.4 the equilibrium trends toward hypochlorous acid and chlorine is lost more rapidly." So, as I say, I think the best bet is to check with the supplier's recommendations for whatever borate product you are using - or have in mind to use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatewood Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 6:19 AM, exchemist said: I certainly can't - and I doubt anyone else can since it seems, from the link I gave you earlier in the thread, to depend on what borate product you are using. The DOT product in the link is said to give a more or less ideal pH on its own. At least, that is how I interpret this passage: "When used in pools at typical dilution, the new formulation has an ideal pH of ≈7.6. Above pH 8, the chlorine becomes much less effective as a sanitizer, but below pH 7.4 the equilibrium trends toward hypochlorous acid and chlorine is lost more rapidly." So, as I say, I think the best bet is to check with the supplier's recommendations for whatever borate product you are using - or have in mind to use. Let me see if I understand. The measurement is simply, how acidic you want the pool water to be? That'll be easy, simply by calculating or experimenting, to get the precise ratio for the desired pH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noquacks Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) The borate pool approach has been abandoned for years. Chlorine still is king. The major pool service/suppliers do not touch the borate idea. I deal with one of the biggest names in pool supply/service in the nation. They buy my analytical chem products. Thats all I can say about it. I thought about borates,for my own pool, but had to abandon the "idea". Edited July 2, 2021 by noquacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 11 hours ago, noquacks said: The borate pool approach has been abandoned for years. Chlorine still is king. The major pool service/suppliers do not touch the borate idea. I deal with one of the biggest names in pool supply/service in the nation. They buy my analytical chem products. Thats all I can say about it. I thought about borates,for my own pool, but had to abandon the "idea". I don't understand why you say "chlorine is still king", as if borates and chlorine were alternatives. As I understand it, there is no suggestion that use of borates is an alternative to chlorine. They seem to be a buffering and water conditioning agent, not a disinfectant. Why has use of borates been abandoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted July 3, 2021 Share Posted July 3, 2021 1 hour ago, exchemist said: Why has use of borates been abandoned? Toxicity- though it's hard to see the relevance in the context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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