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Are conspiracy theories our right as citizens of a free country?


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19 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Yes, India - according to the article I just referenced.  Administrations in other democratic countries try, although it's more difficult legally.

That's not what the article said. The article said the government requested one private company to remove a handful of tweets on one narrow topic. I fail to see how that equates to a country disallowing dissent.

As far as I can tell you are railing against an issue that doesn't actually exist. 

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Censorship is a fine line, but surly even the most ardent advocate of free speech, would object to lies being told about them?

Open debate has to happen with both sides complying with the rules of debate. i.e. evidence is required, not just assertion. Logical fallacies and arguments of distraction cannot be permitted. The lar

But you have to be on Parler, which has 15 million subscribers vs 330 million for twitter. So that’s at least 315 million people not being reached.

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20 minutes ago, zapatos said:

That's not what the article said. The article said the government requested one private company to remove a handful of tweets on one narrow topic. I fail to see how that equates to a country disallowing dissent.

As far as I can tell you are railing against an issue that doesn't actually exist. 

Excerpt from the article: (April 25th, 2021)

Twitter removed tweets that were critical of India's response to the COVID-19 pandemic at the request of the Indian government, the company said Saturday.

Twitter censored tweets from a member of parliament, an actor, a former journalist, and West Bengal's minister of labor and law, according to Indian news outlet MediaNama, which first reported the news.

Indian law allows the country to censor language it deems defamatory or that it views as possibly inciting violence, The Verge noted. The country in February enacted a new regulation that could allow it to jail employees of social-media companies should they refuse to comply with the government's demands to delete content it considers illegal, Fast Company and the Wall Street Journal reported.

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12 hours ago, zapatos said:

You seem to be arguing for perfection. I think our limit may be 'best effort'.

QFT

“There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

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Ok another question. What are your thoughts on whistle-blowers, people who actually do have solid evidence of what goes behind closed doors like Edward Snowden and Julian Assange. Some people see them as patriotic heroes and others as traitors. What are your thoughts? 

 

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38 minutes ago, Alex Mercer said:

Ok another question. What are your thoughts on whistle-blowers, people who actually do have solid evidence of what goes behind closed doors like Edward Snowden and Julian Assange. Some people see them as patriotic heroes and others as traitors. What are your thoughts? 

!

Moderator Note

Please open another thread for a different topic. "Solid evidence" means you're no longer talking about conspiracies.

 
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Ok sorry about that. But on topic about conspiracy theories. What else can you do but interpret evidence given by media (and if you look for anything else where it may be you get called a law breaker for whistle blowing)? Solid evidence can't really be attained if the conspiracy is possibly true and there are higher powers like the government that orchestrate everything so that people remain not informed of the truth/reality of events. I am talking about false flag operations mostly when it comes to conspiracy theories (like mass shootings, or bombings). I seen some YouTube videos that had "interpretations of evidence" to what may have actually happened and why before YouTube started mass censoring them. Some officials even posted messages sent to public (I think it was on twitter) saying that before the bombing occurred  on social media saying it was a "false flag" that was going to occur/occurring (multiple messages after) but seemed to be removed from a google search (damn they are good at censoring now days). Other kinds of evidence showed interpreting human behaviour and made viewers question why certain people did certain things in video footage (I think you would wonder too if you saw). Solid evidence is a simple mans desires but trying to connect the dots with what is given and viewing things in different light with what is given takes some open mindedness. Now we got all these censors (and they censored out allot of stuff) with people just complaining about about mainstream problems that is kind of pointless about times. Maybe conspiracies are pointless to but "what if".

Seems like conspiracy theories are just simply made to look like nut jobs with how they censor out all the good decent ones and leave little to nothing left. I get why people just coming in would look at them like they are nut jobs but its simply questioning and a search for truth. 

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12 minutes ago, Alex Mercer said:

I get why people just coming in would look at them like they are nut jobs but its simply questioning and a search for truth. 

Have you found a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true?

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Sorry my mistake, they were saying it was a drill about to occur/then a drill occurring then next you thing you know its a full blown bomb attack on the news lol

 

But one more thing, sometimes you got to sift through the obvious sht and find the gems.

5 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Have you found a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true?

Yeah possibly but its hard when you are just one person or small no name group with a view point (and a good view point at times) going against big corporations/media and government and bigger powers in general that control the flow of information and what most people think. The censoring of this stuff doesn't help. 

I think the fact that when it happened, the bombing, I was a teen when it happened and there were videos out the next day showings deleted tweets saying it was a drill that was happening. That pretty much made me a believer, that is pretty clear solid evidence.

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13 minutes ago, Alex Mercer said:

 

Yeah possibly but its hard when you are just one person or small no name group with a view point (and a good view point at times) going against big corporations/media and government and bigger powers in general that control the flow of information and what most people think. The censoring of this stuff doesn't help. 

I think the fact that when it happened, the bombing, I was a teen when it happened and there were videos out the next day showings deleted tweets saying it was a drill that was happening. That pretty much made me a believer, that is pretty clear solid evidence.

Sorry, what bombing?

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5 minutes ago, Alex Mercer said:

Boston Bombing.

That and Sandy Hook I think based on what I seen on YouTube and me using google pre censor era were fake.

Can you make your case here, providing evidence, that these events were not what they seemed?

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I would but youtube and google seemed to have removed all the different theories/evidence videos by conspiracy theorists from 2013. Now if you google those two and add 'conspiracy theory' or 'alternative explanation' at then you just get what researchers have to say or the news report on it or some other bs

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7 hours ago, Alex Mercer said:

Boston Bombing.

That and Sandy Hook I think based on what I seen on YouTube and me using google pre censor era were fake.

!

Moderator Note

We are not going to entertain nonsense about how these incidents were fake, especially given that you've admitted that there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

This is not a conspiracy discussion board; the topic was censorship in the context of conspiracy theories infringed on anybody's rights.

And I am well within my authority as a mod to tell you this. (i.e. your rights have not even come close to being violated)

 
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8 hours ago, Alex Mercer said:

when it happened and there were videos out the next day showings deleted tweets saying it was a drill that was happening.

 

8 hours ago, Alex Mercer said:

youtube and google seemed to have removed all the different theories/evidence videos by conspiracy theorists from 2013. Now if you google those two and add 'conspiracy theory' or 'alternative explanation' at then you just get what researchers have to say or the news report on it or some other bs

If someone submits a new math textbook saying "2 + 2 = banana" and "the square root of 72 = mushroom," would it be a conspiracy for that to get deleted and removed by the publisher? If not, then why is doing the same on the web about actual news and events any different?

IMO, the problem here isn't conspiracy or corporate agendas. It's how easily otherwise intelligent rational people like yourself are so willing to believe them and incorporate them into your mental model of the world.

With this foundation set, bad actors around the world don't even have to disprove or refute news stories or limitations placed on them by the press and public. All they really need to do is convince large enough percentages of people that NO claim out there can be treated as valid or true... convince people that 2+2=banana is a perfectly valid stance.

Why worry about the which chess move is the best one to make next when you can erode the entire playing board from below until it disintegrates entirely and all the pieces fall down. 

Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

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8 hours ago, Alex Mercer said:

I would but youtube and google seemed to have removed all the different theories/evidence videos by conspiracy theorists from 2013. Now if you google those two and add 'conspiracy theory' or 'alternative explanation' at then you just get what researchers have to say or the news report on it or some other bs

The thing is, there's a whole industry dedicated to finding these things out; the professionals call themselves "journalists".

Don't worry, they'll report their findings... 😉 

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52 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

The thing is, there's a whole industry dedicated to finding these things out; the professionals call themselves "journalists".

Don't worry, they'll report their findings... 😉 

10 minutes ago, swansont said:

The US, apparently. Several states have recently passed or proposed laws to make it harder to protest.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/20/florida-anti-riot-bill-desantis/

 

Unless they're told not to, but these people are mostly, complete bar-stewards and, so, don't give a shit what you just said...

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My take on the issue ...
( I know you've been waiting for it )

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want, imagine, or construct as a 'reality' in their own mind.
Sometimes we end up calling thse people, visionaries, but most times we end up calling them delusional.

What you don't have the right to do, is to force everyone else to agree with that reality you've created in your own mind. And that is what conspiracy theories usually are. But it is happening more and more with the dozens of 'genders' and sexual orientations, that people 'see' in themselves and expect others to see also.
( but that, alas, is a different thread )

Needless to say, your delusional reality is just that, delusional.
And others do not need to aknowledge it.

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It's not delusional to have alternative theories to what is happening in the world. I'm not a conspiracy theorist because I don't come up with the theories but I believe in the possibility of alternative theories being true. Like I said maybe not solid evidence as I explained above but interpretations of evidence given by mainstream media which is the only source of evidence to go by for a conspiracy theorist. That plus connecting dots. I don't think it's all black and white...

@swansont just answering his questions that's all

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1 hour ago, MigL said:

But it is happening more and more with the dozens of 'genders' and sexual orientations, that people 'see' in themselves and expect others to see also.

The reason conspiracy theories fail is that they don't have the same level of evidence as the scientifically supported, generally accepted 'truth'.

Is there a scientifically supported, generally accepted 'truth' to the 'real' genders and sexual orientations that you are referring to?

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3 hours ago, zapatos said:

Is there a scientifically supported, generally accepted 'truth' to the 'real' genders and sexual orientations that you are referring to?

There is certainly a more and more 'accepted truth', but I think that is more to do with the fact that people generally don't want to offend others with the reality of the situation.
This might be a better fit in another thread, should you wish to discuss it further.

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42 minutes ago, MigL said:

There is certainly a more and more 'accepted truth', but I think that is more to do with the fact that people generally don't want to offend others with the reality of the situation.
This might be a better fit in another thread, should you wish to discuss it further.

This falls right in line with Alex's concerns. If there is no more evidence to support your view of gender and sexual orientation than there is to support the 'dozens' of genders and sexual orientations others believe in, how can you tell which is the 'truth' and which is the whacked out conspiracy?

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43 minutes ago, zapatos said:

This falls right in line with Alex's concerns. If there is no more evidence to support your view of gender and sexual orientation than there is to support the 'dozens' of genders and sexual orientations others believe in, how can you tell which is the 'truth' and which is the whacked out conspiracy?

This is an excellent point worthy of a response. 

 

1 hour ago, MigL said:

This might be a better fit in another thread

For convenience in case that’s a path one wishes to follow: 

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/124518-transgender-athletes/


There are others... But this is all only in the news and being discussed by us here again because the powers that be are trying to distract us from focusing on real issues and prevent us from coming together to fix real problems.

You see... If we keep fighting with each other over non-issues like this, or about abortion, or guns, etc then we’ll never focus the fight on “them” in such a way that we could revoke their current well-financed control of our shared governance. 

Not only is this last part on topic, but it’s a conspiracy that is supportable, ta boot. 😎 

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Very well, I'll oblige.

If I believe I'm not a 'he' or a 'she', but rather, a 'them', you may humor me because you don't wish to offend me, but you are under no obligation to validate the 'reality' I have created in my own mind.

3 hours ago, zapatos said:

This falls right in line with Alex's concerns. If there is no more evidence to support your view of gender and sexual orientation than there is to support the 'dozens' of genders and sexual orientations others believe in, how can you tell which is the 'truth' and which is the whacked out conspiracy?

Since there is no more evidence supporting either view, why would you have me believe everyone elses differing viewpoints, rather than my own ?
IOW, why believe someone else is a 'them', because their mind tells him/her so, rather than what my mind tells me that he/she is ?
Which is the conspiracy here ?

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