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Seat of the consciousness is in the striatum


fredreload
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The seat of consciousness is in the striatum, more specifically, the caudate nucleus. The brain is consisted of various electric fields because of the electrochemistry of the brain. Imagine short circuiting these electric fields or electrochemical interactions through electromagnetic radiation and you would feel that you could short circuit the cerebral cortex and the outer layer of the brain with no consciousness lost, except at the basal ganglia particularly at that of the striatum. I am unsure where the striatum gets its input frequency though. I will need some help on that one.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, DrmDoc said:

I've commented on this subject before with actual evidence presented in an article link that iNow provided:  About life and consciousness. - Page 9 - General Philosophy - Science Forums

As I suggested, consciousness occurs in brain function where afferent (input) sensory stimuli merges with efferent (output) sensory responses.  

 

Which is true because consciousness is a frequency, and that gives it functional properties. But you should be able to pinpoint it to a particular brain structure that gives rise to this frequency(from the gray matter). It is interesting that you mentioned thalamus(because thalamus is also gray matter), but thalamus provides the current. It is the resonance in the striatum that gives rise to the consciousness(a bit of a speculation here). For instance, I can say if you remove the entire cerebral cortex, you would still have consciousness, you might lose some memory or even exhibit speech impediments but you would not lose consciousness from removing the entire cerebral cortex. What I want is to pinpoint to the exact structure that gives rise to this consciousness frequency, and I believe it is in the striatum.

If you take a look this D2 loop from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striatum#/media/File:Basal_ganglia_circuits.svg). You would see that it arrives in the thalamus last, but it branches out to the entire brain afterward. Thalamus is also an important structure for providing brain waves to the entire brain. And how the caudate nucleus gives rise to the consciousness is in its unique structure(shape like a horn)(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_ganglia). Although I am not yet capable of speculating how consciousness arise from that structure. And when the current goes through the striatum it goes through the caudate nucleus all the way down to the amygdala. So it blinks like a beacon from the airplane light, which exhibits a certain frequency.

And for that matters you would derive a Q output-waveform for the consciousness and its functional properties.

 

Edited by fredreload
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Neurophysiology is definitely not my area of expertise, but it seems evident that consciousness isn’t localisable to any specific area in the brain; it’s a global phenomenon. Of course, there will be some local areas the proper functioning of which is a prerequisite for having ordinary consciousness; but that’s not the same thing. If you were to take that old radio in your kitchen, open it, and remove any random piece from its main board, then chances are there won’t be any more music playing - but that does not imply that that random piece was what generated the music.

5 hours ago, fredreload said:

Which is true because consciousness is a frequency

How exactly is consciousness a “frequency”? Frequency of what?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

How exactly is consciousness a “frequency”? Frequency of what?

A frequency of the brain wave. The analogy is that, your brain is not on at all time like a light bulb, there is a time gap between when a neuron fires and when a gray matter receives and emit that message. If you are unsure what gray matter is, those are neurons that is missing a myelin sheath, so they broadcast the signal essentially. And perhaps the lower clock edge does exhibit a consciousness in a functional point of view(I could be wrong). I just figured that, if a light bulb is not on at all time, then perhaps the same applies to consciousness? That even though our sense seem continuous there is a gap in between the time that we feel. Anyway check out the video below on brain wave.

 

4 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

Neurophysiology is definitely not my area of expertise, but it seems evident that consciousness isn’t localisable to any specific area in the brain; it’s a global phenomenon. Of course, there will be some local areas the proper functioning of which is a prerequisite for having ordinary consciousness; but that’s not the same thing. If you were to take that old radio in your kitchen, open it, and remove any random piece from its main board, then chances are there won’t be any more music playing - but that does not imply that that random piece was what generated the music.

Point is, if you disconnect the lamp, the bulb would stop lighting up, but that does not mean you do not know which part of this lamp should light up or is responsible for lighting up.

Quote

 

Of course, there will be some local areas the proper functioning of which is a prerequisite for having ordinary consciousness; but that’s not the same thing.

 

I see, so you are implying my testing method is wrong. Ya I know the method of my testing is kind of crude, but the consciousness has to arise from a local area in the brain somewhere. And I am curious as to the brain structure that gives rise to the consciousness that we know(perhaps a horn like structure like caudate nucleus). But ya, hacking the frequency of the brain wave seems easy in comparison. Although I am yet to figure out where the loop leads into the striatum. I would have to go with substantia nigra at this point.

Edited by fredreload
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If we are discussing consciousness, we should all agree on how we define that quality.  In its most basic form, consciousness is merely the awareness exhibited by an organism's responses to stimuli.  In brain function, this basic awareness is suggested by our brain's efferent responses to afferent stimuli.  Our brain produces two basic forms of awareness, which are the two basic forms of efferent responses our brain generates.  We term these basic responses as conscious and unconscious.   

Conceptualizing consciousness as a type of frequency our brain generates may be a bit misguided.  Indeed, consciousness may be observed by brainwave activity and that activity measured by its level of electrochemical exchanges but that only suggest how intently brain function may be engage rather that the quality that confers intellect or intelligence, personality or identity. Consciousness, as it relates to the sum of our intellect, personality or identity, involves a confluence of brain activity converging in reciprocal efferent responses to the array of stimuli we have continually experienced from birth. The level or frequency of our brainwave activity merely suggest how our brain is engaged.

To be clear, consciousness in brain function is about the place where incoming stimuli triggers a reciprocal response.  That reciprocal response signifies the awareness that an afferent stimuli has created.  Consciousness, as I am defining here, does not infer intelligence or personality.  Intelligence is inferred by a brain that produces a mind.  Mind, as I have frequently defined, is the environment of cognitive activity in the brain that arises brain function and that is quantified by a brain's capacity to integrate divergent sensory information through a process that produces behaviors independent of instinct.  Essentially, a mind is quantified by a capacity to engage proactive behaviors over reactive behaviors.  

Understanding the emergence of consciousness in brain function requires a consideration of how our brain likely evolved.  Brain evolution should be at the foundation of your theories.  Although not a linear evolution, our brain retains remarkably clear evidence of its contiguous path of functional evolution from brainstem to cortex.  On that path, the thalamus emerges as an ancestral or proto-brain and the cortex as a functional extension of that brain, which is why the cortex may sustain considerable damage that doesn’t lead to death, while damage to the thalamus is deadly

If you are looking for some resonant frequency of consciousness in brain function, that frequency is suggested by the overall activity of the brain in its continual electrochemical responses stimuli.  If I may add, our brain responses to stimuli are a major component of its metabolic homeostatic processes.  However, If you're looking for the place in brain function where these responses merge or emerge, the article link iNow provided is a good start...but you may find that the specific place is everywhere.

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8 minutes ago, DrmDoc said:

If we are discussing consciousness, we should all agree on how we define that quality.  In its most basic form, consciousness is merely the awareness exhibited by an organism's responses to stimuli.  In brain function, this basic awareness is suggested by our brain's efferent responses to afferent stimuli.  Our brain produces two basic forms of awareness, which are the two basic forms of efferent responses our brain generates.  We term these basic responses as conscious and unconscious.   

Conceptualizing consciousness as a type of frequency our brain generates may be a bit misguided.  Indeed, consciousness may be observed by brainwave activity and that activity measured by its level of electrochemical exchanges but that only suggest how intently brain function may be engage rather that the quality that confers intellect or intelligence, personality or identity. Consciousness, as it relates to the sum of our intellect, personality or identity, involves a confluence of brain activity converging in reciprocal efferent responses to the array of stimuli we have continually experienced from birth. The level or frequency of our brainwave activity merely suggest how our brain is engaged.

To be clear, consciousness in brain function is about the place where incoming stimuli triggers a reciprocal response.  That reciprocal response signifies the awareness that an afferent stimuli has created.  Consciousness, as I am defining here, does not infer intelligence or personality.  Intelligence is inferred by a brain that produces a mind.  Mind, as I have frequently defined, is the environment of cognitive activity in the brain that arises brain function and that is quantified by a brain's capacity to integrate divergent sensory information through a process that produces behaviors independent of instinct.  Essentially, a mind is quantified by a capacity to engage proactive behaviors over reactive behaviors.  

Understanding the emergence of consciousness in brain function requires a consideration of how our brain likely evolved.  Brain evolution should be at the foundation of your theories.  Although not a linear evolution, our brain retains remarkably clear evidence of its contiguous path of functional evolution from brainstem to cortex.  On that path, the thalamus emerges as an ancestral or proto-brain and the cortex as a functional extension of that brain, which is why the cortex may sustain considerable damage that doesn’t lead to death, while damage to the thalamus is deadly

If you are looking for some resonant frequency of consciousness in brain function, that frequency is suggested by the overall activity of the brain in its continual electrochemical responses stimuli.  If I may add, our brain responses to stimuli are a major component of its metabolic homeostatic processes.  However, If you're looking for the place in brain function where these responses merge or emerge, the article link iNow provided is a good start...but you may find that the specific place is everywhere.

The brain frequency can be decoded as I have shown with the Q-waveform in electronics. The idea is, when the brain receives a stimuli such as sound or even images. The brain interprets it as a waveform(imagine a square wave), and this square wave, as I have posted in Flip-Flop video, can be further distinguished into different logic gate components. Hence you may think of sound of tone "A" as a combination of "AND", "OR", "NAND" gates as an example that generates this waveform. And these logic gates, coincidentally, also governs our behavior. As consciousness also exist as a waveform and thus logic gates where you can plug your stimuli waveform into.

As for the brain part that arise consciousness, well I suspect it is in the basal ganglia from the D1 loop. It is a structure that gives rise to this consciousness comprise of neurons. Why do I think that? Because we have neurons in our hand, in our feet, and some other places in the body(probably not organs). But the consciousness is only in the brain. So what marks the differences among these neurons if the neurons in the hand, the feet, is same as the neurons in the brain? It has to be structural. My guess is that the consciousness arise from the horn like structure in caudate nucleus in the striatum, which is also a part of basal ganglia. Coincidentally, the D1 loop also goes there. I could be wrong though, but the shape of the horn like structure of caudate nucleus intrigues me if you look at the anatomy or physiology of the striatum in the brain. As to why the consciousness is generated in the horn like structure, I have no idea. Clearly you cannot think of consciousness as a functional point of view. The behavior or personality can be comprised from the logic gates in a functional point of view, but probably not consciousness.

P.S. As an example, let's say the light hits the eye, then it travels through neurons and the white matters in the brain. The white matter exhibit a synaptic delay, so the signal say pauses for 0.5ms, then moves on, until it hits the gray matter and the signal is broadcasted, the next signal arrives 0.8ms later, so you got a high edge when the signal pass through and a low edge when the signal is gone. And there you got a square wave. You plug this square wave based on the delay as the Q-waveform outputs and solve for the logic gates. And the logic gates dictate the information of the sound/light/memory or personality of the brain.

Square wave - Wikipedia

The Q waveform for the above example would be like this, and you solve for the logic gates using this waveform.

1241250784_.thumb.png.5154dbd61eefcf1d882a5927df6d8cad.png

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Why do I think the brain works in terms of Q-waveform? Because the brain looks like a CPU, or at least the first 30 seconds of this video. But keep in mind if you think consciousness is a functional point of view, a CPU does not exhibit a consciousness(or we wouldn't know) in comparison to a brain.

 

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6 minutes ago, fredreload said:

Why do I think the brain works in terms of Q-waveform? Because the brain looks like a CPU

This neatly sums up your whole thread. Lol

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52 minutes ago, iNow said:

This neatly sums up your whole thread. Lol

Thanks :D , I had trouble understanding the brain because I thought it is analogue based, but the waveform the brain generates on the gray matter can be interpreted in terms of binary inputs. It is interesting because the locals here mentioned the term gray matter. So I thought since the white matter has a myelin(lipid) sheath around it as an insulator then the gray matter has to be the place where the signal is broadcasted.

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19 hours ago, fredreload said:

I see, so you are implying my testing method is wrong.

What I am saying is that, to the best of my limited knowledge in this area, this has already been intensively investigated (with methods that aren’t so crude, such as fMRI etc), and no local “seat” of consciousness has been found. It appears to be a global property, not something that can be uniquely reduced to a single area.

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Posted (edited)

 

6 hours ago, iNow said:

And I think the galaxy is made of bathtubs bc it looks the same as when the water swirls down their drains. 🙄

 A bit too many bathtubs

Edited by fredreload
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16 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

What I am saying is that, to the best of my limited knowledge in this area, this has already been intensively investigated (with methods that aren’t so crude, such as fMRI etc), and no local “seat” of consciousness has been found. It appears to be a global property, not something that can be uniquely reduced to a single area.

Precisely; consciousness is a global quality that is not localized to the output of a specific brain structure.  As I've commented, the consciousness or quality of awareness the evinces intelligence and identity involves a confluence of neural responses from all areas of the brain.

19 hours ago, fredreload said:

Why do I think the brain works in terms of Q-waveform? Because the brain looks like a CPU...

 To iNow's point, consciousness cannot be ascribed to the brain by how it "looks."  Although you may consider the brain relatable to a CPU, it is infinitely more complex in its neural minutia and considerably less in its functional matrix from a perspective of its evolution.  Constructing a brain that produces human consciousness involved a series of evolutional milestones over millions of years as the functional remnants of that evolution in contemporary brain structure suggest. 

21 hours ago, fredreload said:

As for the brain part that arise consciousness, well I suspect it is in the basal ganglia from the D1 loop. It is a structure that gives rise to this consciousness comprise of neurons. Why do I think that? Because we have neurons in our hand, in our feet, and some other places in the body(probably not organs). But the consciousness is only in the brain.

 It isn't that simple. Clearly, you have considerably more to research.  For example, our second brain--The Enteric System.

 

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On 3/13/2021 at 7:14 AM, DrmDoc said:

 It isn't that simple. Clearly, you have considerably more to research.  For example, our second brain--The Enteric System.

Na, Wikipedia is saying the nervous system in the organs are like a second brain, but that is for reference, it does not mean you think with the organs(although I wouldn't know). Anyway, I would use an app to reverse the waveform into logic gates, then do a comparison on these logic gates visually to figure out what is there. Perhaps a memory fragment, or perhaps a sound, or personality. It really is an enigma to decode this machine.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The striatum has often been believed to be the center of consciousness because of the reasons DRMDOC has suggested.

"The striatum is a subcortical structure in the forebrain that forms the major input to the basal ganglia. The striatum can be further subdivided into dorsal (caudate, putamen) and ventral (nucleus accumbens), and is implicated in regulating motor behaviours and responses to rewarding and aversive stimuli.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2021 at 1:15 PM, JohnSSM said:

The striatum has often been believed to be the center of consciousness because of the reasons DRMDOC has suggested.

"The striatum is a subcortical structure in the forebrain that forms the major input to the basal ganglia. The striatum can be further subdivided into dorsal (caudate, putamen) and ventral (nucleus accumbens), and is implicated in regulating motor behaviours and responses to rewarding and aversive stimuli.

Right, I speculate the consciousness is in the caudate, where the signal comes from the Putamen and it acts as a beacon, if you can see the electrical signaling of the neurons it goes from Putamen in the center, then branch into the caudate like a French horn. And yes, motor behaviour and reward response pretty much applies for the entire basal ganglia = =, but if you check where the semicircular canal governs, you might be able to find where the consciousness, because when you feel like the whole head is spinning, the semicircular canal is pretty much spinning the entire consciousness based on my speculation. If you do not agree with my finding, you can tell me where the seat of consciousness is and we will discuss from there :D . But I sense you are just here to provide some information, so I will go with caudate, the one where the semicircular canal leads to though, will have to do with motor behaviour.

P.S. Pretty sure semicircular canal does not lead to caudate. I wouldn't know D:, speculation.

Edited by fredreload
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26 minutes ago, fredreload said:

Right, I speculate the consciousness is in the caudate, where the signal comes from the Putamen and it acts as a beacon,

Well, the knowledge ive gathered about neurology tells me that that brain works when many different neurons fire at once.  This would seem to indicate that consicousness or any human perception, is created by a sequential firing of neurons, and those nuerons do not always share the same location in the brain.  So, locality of consciousness is kinda hard to nail down when you know that about the brain.

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22 minutes ago, JohnSSM said:

Well, the knowledge ive gathered about neurology tells me that that brain works when many different neurons fire at once.  This would seem to indicate that consicousness or any human perception, is created by a sequential firing of neurons, and those nuerons do not always share the same location in the brain.  So, locality of consciousness is kinda hard to nail down when you know that about the brain.

There is also neurons in the arms, and the legs, and many other places, why does it have to be the brain? Clearly you guys narrow down the neurons down to the brain region disregarding the neurons in the other parts of the body, but you are not willing to admit a particular brain region gives rise to consciousness = =, what gives?

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Just now, fredreload said:

Clearly you guys...

I would advise caution against thinking JohnSSM is in any way representative of the community here, or the scientific community more broadly. 

He’s just trolling 

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2 minutes ago, fredreload said:

There is also neurons in the arms, and the legs, and many other places, why does it have to be the brain? Clearly you guys narrow down the neurons down to the brain region disregarding the neurons in the other parts of the body, but you are not willing to admit a particular brain region gives rise to consciousness = =, what gives?

The nuerons in your arm do not contribute to your emotional feelings near as much as the nervous system in your head, chest and gut.    Its a very interesting subject.  You  should look into it.

1 minute ago, iNow said:

I would advise caution against thinking JohnSSM is in any way representative of the community here, or the scientific community more broadly. 

He’s just trolling 

Ad hominem attack.  I think this makes it clear who is trolling.

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3 minutes ago, JohnSSM said:

Ad hominem attack. 

You really need to refresh yourself on the definition of this word. You keep misusing it. I’m just reporting an axiom. 

Edited by iNow
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5 minutes ago, fredreload said:

There is also neurons in the arms, and the legs, and many other places, why does it have to be the brain? Clearly you guys narrow down the neurons down to the brain region disregarding the neurons in the other parts of the body, but you are not willing to admit a particular brain region gives rise to consciousness = =, what gives?

Try this article. "Neuronal synchronization can be defined as a correlated appearance in time of two or more events associated with various aspects of neuronal activity. Neuronal synchronization depends on chemical and electrical synaptic as well as ephaptic and non-specific interactions"

Neuronal Synchronization and Thalamocortical Rhythms in Sleep, Wake and Epilepsy - Jasper's Basic Mechanisms of the Epilepsies - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

Just now, iNow said:

You really need to refresh yourself on the definition of this word. You keep misusing it. 

No, you came into this thread to attack me and call me a troll.  Your denial cannot change what happened.  

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, JohnSSM said:

Try this article. "Neuronal synchronization can be defined as a correlated appearance in time of two or more events associated with various aspects of neuronal activity. Neuronal synchronization depends on chemical and electrical synaptic as well as ephaptic and non-specific interactions"

Neuronal Synchronization and Thalamocortical Rhythms in Sleep, Wake and Epilepsy - Jasper's Basic Mechanisms of the Epilepsies - NCBI Bookshelf (nih.gov)

Yes, but it does not mention your consciousness require neuronal synchronization of two activities to arise. Even if it does each part of the neuron provides a specific task. You mentioned non-specific interactions but not non-specific task. Clearly the part governs for hearing is not required for tasting if you know what I mean.

37 minutes ago, iNow said:

I would advise caution against thinking JohnSSM is in any way representative of the community here, or the scientific community more broadly. 

He’s just trolling 

I dunno, there are just too many getting around my head coming from you geniuses(though those are the people bother to respond). I am not sure for what purpose(Prometheus?). I am just a person coming here seeking for ideas about immortality as well for getting a group to revive me. But I see many information if not constructed purposely to limit a person's reach. I am not sure for what purpose. It might be part of the American culture(dunno). Clearly someone yelling at you that "You cannot be immortal" gets on my nerve sometimes = =. So I try to convince that you need to tune a specific frequency into your caudate to swap your consciousness. Clearly that is too much to ask sometimes, or I should just give up on the thread with my ideas. Not angry though, you meet all kinds of people on the internet. Not angry.

Edited by fredreload
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15 minutes ago, fredreload said:

or I should just give up on the thread with my ideas

Not at all. Encourage you to just think critically and be cautious of which ideas you accept as helpful and valid and which you treat with skepticism and additional scrutiny. 

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