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Hello All,

Through my previous SFN posts (Progression of Sleep to Dreaming, Dreams and Dreaming, & Dreams and Memory), I believe I've sufficiently established the nature of dreaming in brain function and that dreams are meaningful.  Yet some of you, who may still have some interest, may still have doubts regarding all or, specifically, the latter.  Indeed, dreams are meaningful in that they uniquely interpret the resonant sensory influences unconsciously affecting the brain's response centers in sleep.  So, one may ask more specifically, what are these "resonant influences and how are they interpreted by dream content?"  If you still have interest or doubts, let us discuss them here as permissible by SFN rules.  I welcome your thoughts.

 

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Understandably, most people of serious mind and interests would rather consign this topic of discussion to the trash bin.  From an unstudied perspective, understanding the true nature of dreams and dreaming appears to offer no real or practical advantage to our material pursuits and interests.  Many years ago, I was of similar mind until I experienced a curious dream involving a muddy shoe.

A remarkably vivid experience, I dreamed about a shoe belonging to my younger sister that appeared as placed in a bathroom sink.  I awoke immediately and, throughout that morning, I thought the dream very odd.  I said to myself, “What care did I have for my sister’s muddy shoes?”  She had several shoes and that shoe was not particularly noteworthy.  As I went about my day, I thought no more of the dream and my sister’s errant shoe until that evening when I entered through the basement door of the home she shared at the time with our parents.  As I crossed the threshold, there, on the floor, laid the exact muddy shoe exactly as it appeared in my dream the night before, though not in a sink.  After finding her muddied shoe, I later told my sister about the odd dream and we both had a laugh.  She said that she had inadvertently stepped in some mud earlier and didn’t want to track it through the house while rushing to use a bathroom toilet.  Thereafter, I became increasingly curious about the nature of dreams and how it was possible to dream about a future experience I could not possibly know would occur.

Over the years, I would learn that my muddy shoe dream was a precognitive dream and that such experiences are quite common.  Although I can explain how such dreams occur, I can’t say that I completely understand why they do.  In retrospect, there was nothing about that dream’s content that clearly explains why it occurred. Nevertheless, dreams and dreaming are not total mysteries to me or to science.  They are remarkably predictive and descriptive of compelling unconscious mental and social influences.  Understanding dream content opens a window on our unconscious mind in ways not commonly or well understood by many--particularly those in mainstream science, IMO.

 

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coincidence
/kəʊˈɪnsɪd(ə)ns/
 
noun
 
  1. 1.
    a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection.
    "it was a coincidence that she was wearing a jersey like Laura's"
     
    Similar:
    accident
     
     
    chance
     
     
    serendipity
     
     
    fate
     
     
    a twist of fate
     
    destiny
     
     
    fortuity
     
     
    fortune
     
     
    providence
     
     
    freak
     
     
    hazard
     
     
    a piece of good fortune
     
    (a bit of) luck
     
    (a bit of) good luck
     
    a fluke
     
    a happy chance
     
    happenstance
     
     
     
     
     
     
  2. 2.
    the fact of corresponding in nature or in time of occurrence.
    "the coincidence of interest between the mining companies and certain politicians"
     
    Similar:
    co-occurrence
     
     
    coexistence
     
     
    conjunction
     
     
    simultaneity

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13 hours ago, DrmDoc said:

Understandably, most people of serious mind and interests would rather consign this topic of discussion to the trash bin.

!

Moderator Note

It's being considered. Not happy with the unevidenced precognitive ability assertions. I can move this if you want to stray from mainstream and do the work required to make such statements.

 
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4 hours ago, Phi for All said:
!

Moderator Note

It's being considered. Not happy with the unevidenced precognitive ability assertions. I can move this if you want to stray from mainstream and do the work required to make such statements.

 

Apologies, I should have qualified my use of "precognitive dream" as a reference distinguishable from some unproven psychic phenomena.  It is not a suggestion that I or anyone possesses some extraordinary perceptual ability.  As I perceive and use this reference, it describes the predictive nature of a dream type and content that isn't anymore extraordinary that weather forecasting.  Meteorologists, for example, can forecast atmospheric occurrences within a relative degree of certainty with sufficient data.  Likewise, there's a significant amount of sensory experiences that escape our conscious perception but not necessarily our unconscious awareness.  As I understand, precognitive dreaming is about the unconscious nature of brain function and how that function accumulates, processes and accesses huge amounts of sensory data to produce predictive outcomes. 

Using my muddy shoe dream as a example, it's likely that I was unconsciously aware of the potential for someone stepping in some muddy area near my parent's home and that anyone leaving or entering that resident might muddy their shoes if not particularly attentive. Unfortunately, my sister was that person and my dream appeared to forecast that she would muddy her shoe.  Further, it may be that I was unconsciously aware that the shoe she muddied was one of a pair she might have worn frequently at the time and that if she were to step in some mud puddle, that pair would be the ones soiled.   I cannot now know for certain, given the number of years that have past since that dream, what I did or didn't know about the grounds of my parent's home or my sister's foot apparel preferences at that time.  What I do know is that this dream experience compelled my many years of interests in the extraordinary nature of our unconscious--which is the focus of my interests here in these discussions. 

9 hours ago, John Cuthber said:
coincidence
/kəʊˈɪnsɪd(ə)ns/
noun
  1. 1.
    a remarkable concurrence of events or circumstances without apparent causal connection.
    "it was a coincidence that she was wearing a jersey like Laura's"
     
  2. 2.
    the fact of corresponding in nature or in time of occurrence.
    "the coincidence of interest between the mining companies and certain politicians"

Amusing and yes, coincidence does indeed appear to be the most reasonable and applicable explanation as it relates to the general nature of real life experiences; however, coincidence is not a word that apply to the nature of dreaming and dream content in brain function.  Empirically, the science suggests that dreaming is not a coincidental act of brain function in sleep and neither is dream content.  On average occurring at 90 minute intervals, dreaming initiates as a consequence of atonia near the end of the deepest stages of NREM glymphatic cleansing.  Dreaming emerge as a response to the increase sensitivity of brain function to stimuli in sleep due to the partial removal of sensory suppressing interstitial cell waste (adenosine) and brain chemistry (melatonin).  Dream content is an interpretive response to the stimuli our brain experiences in sleep.  The elements of my dream suggest something deeper, which I cannot now confirm given how long ago it occurred.  Nevertheless, I appreciate your perspective.

Edited by DrmDoc
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3 hours ago, DrmDoc said:

I should have qualified my use of "precognitive dream" as a reference distinguishable from some unproven psychic phenomena.  It is not a suggestion that I or anyone possesses some extraordinary perceptual ability.  As I perceive and use this reference, it describes the predictive nature of a dream type and content that isn't anymore extraordinary that weather forecasting.  Meteorologists, for example, can forecast atmospheric occurrences within a relative degree of certainty with sufficient data.  Likewise, there's a significant amount of sensory experiences that escape our conscious perception but not necessarily our unconscious awareness.  As I understand, precognitive dreaming is about the unconscious nature of brain function and how that function accumulates, processes and accesses huge amounts of sensory data to produce predictive outcomes. 

I experienced this a few times when I was younger and especially in high stress / trauma situations. You’re description of it as a forecast resonates with me. The things in my dreams were directionally correct and vague enough to allow different details to fit into it when they were experienced in waking life.

When I got to college, I noticed similar feelings when under the influence of THC, but I chalked those up more to flawed transition from short term to long term memory... basically an encoding error or a retrieval / recall error. Similar, but obviously different from the first... the thing you’re describing here. 

An intuitive forecast based on lots of variables and inputs, not all of which were conscious of. Interesting idea. ✌️

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37 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

You don't have any more extreme dreams?

World enders, bizzaro trips, etc?

Over my long years I, as have many others, have had many such dream types that tend to reflect the resonant effects of stress and anxiety that persist amid the aroused state of dreaming in brain function. Dreaming is how our sleeping brain responds to stimuli in sleep, which means they don't occur without a cause that can't be traced back to some resonant influence of primarily mental significance.

24 minutes ago, iNow said:

I experienced this a few times when I was younger and especially in high stress / trauma situations. You’re description of it as a forecast resonates with me. The things in my dreams were directionally correct and vague enough to allow different details to fit into it when they were experienced in waking life.

When I got to college, I noticed similar feelings when under the influence of THC, but I chalked those up more to flawed transition from short term to long term memory... basically an encoding error or a retrieval / recall error. Similar, but obviously different from the first... the thing you’re describing here. 

An intuitive forecast based on lots of variables and inputs, not all of which were conscious of. Interesting idea. ✌️

Precisely!  Perhaps intuition is just a convenient or simpler way to describe the perception and thought processes our brain unconsciously engages amid our conscious wakeful focus on more immediate concerns or interests.  Indeed, as time does embellish memory, it may be that my dream was not as vivid as I recall.  However, I believe my memory of the experience is quite clear as I have revisited it obsessively since my moment of arousal from it.  Interestingly, I remember more about that moment than I do my real life experiences at the time. 

Edited by DrmDoc
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7 minutes ago, DrmDoc said:

Indeed, as time does embellish memory, it may be that my dream was not as vivid as I recall.  However, I believe my memory of the experience is quite clear as I have revisited it obsessively since my moment of arousal from it. 

My understanding of the process is that each time we revisit a memory we also slightly rewrite it. It gets slightly edited every single time we think about it. Basically, the more we think about it over time, the less likely it is to remain accurate and maintain fidelity to the actual experience. 

This is a result of how recall works, not some intentional manipulation or conscious attempt to embellish. 

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11 minutes ago, iNow said:

My understanding of the process is that each time we revisit a memory we also slightly rewrite it. It gets slightly edited every single time we think about it. Basically, the more we think about it over time, the less likely it is to remain accurate and maintain fidelity to the actual experience. 

You're quite right, perhaps I should unearth and revisit whatever notes I may have jotted down at the time as reassurance.  I kept a journal--diary as some may reference-- of my daily experiences as a record of significant events that I may reflect on in my later years. I now keep a sort of dream journal for a similar purpose. 

Edited by DrmDoc
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/2/2021 at 7:19 PM, DrmDoc said:

From an unstudied perspective, understanding the true nature of dreams and dreaming appears to offer no real or practical advantage to our material pursuits and interests.

If there is some real or practical advantage to understanding dream content, one may ask, what is it?  A primary advantage, as many mental healthcare providers could attest, is psychological.  Dream content can provide remarkably clear insight on the psychological underpinnings of our thoughts and behaviors.  However, for several years now, I've investigated whether there is any materially overt advantage to knowing anything about dream content.  Well, the juries still out on the latter; however, at the very least, I've proven to my own satisfaction that the psychological advantages are real.

Many years ago, amid a particularly painful divorce, I fell into an extraordinarily deep depression that lingered for several years.  Being a typical male of that era with my upbringing, I did not seek the professional help I obviously needed with the belief that I would recover sufficiently without it. And I did recover, but not until after I experienced a particularly vivid dream about my mother who had died just a couple years before my divorce.  It was a simple dream involving me crying profusely over her departure in the dream from my home.  When I awoke, I immediately understood that dreams relevancy to my current psychological state at the time and I also new what that dream meant.  The cause of my deep depressions during the years after my divorce was not my marriage dissolution but the loss of my mother whom I had not sufficiently grieved until the emotional buoyance my marriage provided dissolved in divorce.  Over the years, I've had many such psychological revelations regarding the underpinnings of mind and emotion from the insight my perspective of dream content provides.

In more recent years, I've investigated the material advantages of dream content with inconsistent results.  The material advantages I seek are those dreams that provides some provably and overwhelmingly real physical or material result that cannot be dismissed by pure chance.  I've devised experiments, based on my functional perspective of dreaming, that initially but do not consistently provide the type of unassailable results I seek.  But, I remain in the hunt.  If your interest remains, I welcome your thoughts and discussion of the relevant science.

  

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hello All,

I began my recent spade of discussions on dreaming as an effort to encourage exchanges, among interested minds, that would enhance my perspective of mind and consciousness in brain function and deepen my understanding of certain types or forms of dreaming.  In that effort, I’ve shared my personal dream experiences which is, frankly, not very easy for me to do.  Dreams convey so much information to me that sharing them is like publicly exposing one’s medical/psychological history.  Fortunately, as I’ve learned, there are precious few who share my degree of insight or even interest in this subject.
In my initial post in this discussion thread, I mentioned precognitive dreaming and ran afoul of our site’s moderators by not qualifying that description of a dream type.  I said I could explain how this extraordinary type of dreaming occurs but not always why it does.  I was charged by our moderators to “do the work” to support my claims and now, I believe, I have an opportunity to do so and demonstrate my meaning.

In qualifying my description of precognitive dreaming, I said it’s like forecasting the weather where sufficient meteorological data could be gathered and assessed to predict or provide a future weather-related scenario or outcome.  With precog dreaming, the data is unconsciously gathered, assessed and, primarily, it forecasts some aspect related to our social or mental environment.  As I consciously pondered our moderator’s charge and the work that needed doing, I experienced the following dream response this past evening:

In this dream, rather conveniently, I found myself as a meteorologist amidst reporting the oncoming week’s weather forecast for television viewers.  I recall reporting the mid-week pollen count as 10, which I thought and said was low.


The forecast in this probable precog dream is 10 with a predicted low probability of occurring about mid-week which, from my perspective, starts this coming Wednesday.  For those who are unfamiliar, the United States permit two types of countrywide lottery drawings weekly, Mega Millions & Powerball.  Of the various ways to win either drawing, one needs only the Megaball or Powerball number to have a winning ticket. My dream appears to forecast 10 as either the Megaball or Powerball number for this coming week.  I believe this dream offers us a uniquely public opportunity to observe either the fallacy of precog dreaming, the profound nature and value of dream content or, perhaps, the nature of coincidence as MigL amusingly observed in a prior comment. I guess we'll all know by this time next week.
 

Edited by DrmDoc
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