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55 minutes ago, Olorin said:

How about YOU supply ME with evidence for the BIG BANG SCENARIO" with like rigidity that you require

!

Moderator Note

That’s available in textbooks and journal articles. Summaries can be found on the web.

Mainstream science is the default position here; nobody is required to reinvent the wheel. However, you own the burden of proof for alternative scenarios. Your posts need to be more than colorful pictures. You need a falsifiable model, capable of making predictions, and evidence that fits with the model. 

 
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1 hour ago, Olorin said:

  10 hours ago, beecee said:

 

10 hours ago beecee said, with regards to your nonsensical claims that Earth has doubled in size over the past 180 MYA,

13 hours ago, beecee said:

As yet you have not shown any evidence for that nonsensical claim, among your other speculative claims. Even though you are in speculations, I believe you are still required to show evidence of your speculative ideas. 

I'm still waiting, and I would also say the whole forum is still waiting for that evidence. In actual fact, you have none, other then unsupported rhetoric.

1 hour ago, Olorin said:

  "The giant-impact hypothesis, sometimes called the Big Splash, or the Theia Impact, suggests that the Moon formed from the ejecta of a collision between the proto-Earth and a Mars-sized planetesimal, approximately 4.5 billion years ago, in the Hadean eon (about 20 to 100 million years after the Solar System coalesced)."

Yes, that is the current best supported hypothesis...https://astronomy.com/news/2019/05/giant-impact-hypothesis-an-evolving-legacy-of-apollo extract: "From remote measurements of the Moon’s mass and radius, researchers also know its density is anomalously low, indicating it lacks iron. While about 30 percent of Earth's mass is trapped in its iron-rich core, the core of the Moon only accounts for a few percent of its total mass. Despite this substantial difference in iron, Apollo samples later revealed that mantle rocks from the Moon and Earth have remarkably similar concentrations of oxygen. And because these lunar and terrestrial rocks are significantly different than meteorites coming from Mars or the asteroid belt, it shows the Moon and Earth's mantle share a past connection. Additionally, compared with Earth, lunar rocks were also discovered to be more depleted in so-called volatile elements — those that vaporize easily upon heating — a hint that the Moon formed at high-temperatures."

 

Of course if you have evidence invalidating the current evidence and hypothesis, it would be wise and dutiful of you to follow current procedure and submit a scientific paper on your own hypothesis and the evidence for scientific peer review. I suggest though that all this is, is more  unsupported rhetoric.

1 hour ago, Olorin said:

   How about YOU supply ME with evidence for the BIG BANG SCENARIO" with like rigidity that you require.

Easily found if you google, which I'm sure you are capable of...irrespective, I'll play your game.......[1] The observed expansion, when mentally reversed, suggests a smaller, hotter, denser past.[ 2] The CMBR at 2.73 K or relic heat from the BB  [3] Abundance of the lighter elements.  [4] Galactic formation and evolution.

1 hour ago, Olorin said:

  "The Universe has an existence independent of the observer." The latter has been unequivocally DISPROVEN by RELATIVITY. So why the paranoia? We both know the answer and are too nice to say, or else sh*t scared. Mainstream Science should use the word HERETIC instead of CRACKPOT, or kindlier, distinguish the SCIENTIST from the TECHNICIAN. Only the former may practice free-thinking, obviously. Every hypothesis is an unprovable opinion until shipwrecked by the Gods. Ignorance is Saint Theodora (Gift of God) with divergent historical records.

 More emotional, seemingly religiously inspired rhetoric I see. Or if you like, you could show me evidence of any of the above. The universe does not give a stuff about the observer or life within it, which was simply a continuation of evolution of the universe and the elements, stars and planets, and the life which fortuitiously through abiogenesis came to be, on at least one planet. We are star stuff, pure and simple.  

Scientists, at least those worth their salt, practise "free thinking" as guided by evidence, both observational and experimental, and the scientific methodology. 

I would, since you raised it, familairise yourself with the index aligning with crackpottery.....      https://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html        

Edited by beecee
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On 1/3/2021 at 12:24 PM, Olorin said:

Does anyone ever question Pangaea?

Sure! Science and scientific theories are being questioned, researched, added to, modified, and re-enforced everyday. 

On 1/3/2021 at 12:24 PM, Olorin said:

It seem as plausible as Plate Subduction Tectonics, which implies that Everests and Matterhorns should be popping up all over the Pacific.

https://www.ofseaandmountains.com/the-worlds-tallest-underwater-mountain-in-the-ocean/#:~:text=Mauna Kea – Technically the World's Highest Mou

extract:

Mauna Kea – Technically the World’s Highest Mountain

10,000 meters from base to peak, 4,207 meters of which are above sea level.

 

http://2ap93t1x1l6e2f6gfo3ag4vw.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/seamounts.jpg

http://2ap93t1x1l6e2f6gfo3ag4vw.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/fig17-01.jpg

http://awesomeocean.com/trending-now/the-mountains-of-the-deep-sea/

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  • 2 weeks later...

The UNESCO Geological Map of The World that I have provided, a very scaled down version of its TIFF format (11322 + 8160) x 11496, came with an APP that can expand to the pixel all parts of the 2 maps represented. If one were to consider the vast differences between the Pacific (not) mid-ocean ridge when compared to all the other oceans, that person would find an explanation, at present, in James Maxlow's continued work on his predecessors theory alone. The "throwing off of the Moon" (Cayce quote), the core-Uranium heat source gain  vs loss equilibrium differences considerations for Earth, Mars & the Moon, and the Oxygen generation by cyanobacteria since 3900 MYA, variously causing Solar Wind oxidation to H2O are my independent personal contributions since the articles in Nexus April-May & June-July 2010  were published. The June-July issue contains an admission that these matters were unsolved, and citation of Stephen Gould's (Editor) "The Book of Life" brought a great work of Palaeontology back into print. My sources are not limited by prejudiced opinions, as was the mode of some of the greatest Master of Science.

The Fault through California may be traced back out to sea North and South. The Gulf of California was obviously, once upon a time, much as the Great African Rift with its Mountains first rising like a carbuncle before it bursts open and the sea rushes in, in similar vain to Madagascar previously. The variations in Primate species across the continents, even New Zealand’s only indigenous “mammals” (3three species of bats) speaks loudly for their independent evolution, with the bats, from pterosaurs. Just as venomous snakes may not be reptiles but descended from the amphibious caecilians, so may it be that primate are distinct from mammals in general. The Australian Funnelweb Spider has a toxin deadly only to primates among larger prey, deadly to us and harmless to cats and dogs. Bats may thus be used to prove these assertions. The smaller pterosaurs (fossils found evolved to bat sizes and furred) were possibly once their prey, judging from the Northern Tree-dwelling variety. Note that the smallest “mammal”, maybe not a mammal at all, is a 29-33 mm Bumblebee Bat.

The San Andreas 'Mid-Ocean Ridge' goes out further from land toward Chile. These details may be observable form the maps I have provided in this thread. Checked against "Google Earth", New Zealand seems to be a once a submerged piece of a continent called Lemurea (in the Pacific – Atlantis in the Atlantic, Cayce) to the North. Lands pole-shifted away from the Equator were exposed, towards they were submerged. The Great Australian Bite is a 2000 ft sea cliff of limestone – Northern Australia submerges as river deltas, and Indonesia is, like Rio, shallow seas covered in mountain ranges and plateaus. The Bahamas contain Blue Holes, marine limestone caves with stalagmites Geologically recently submerged and full of stalagmites and stalactites that DON’T form under water, or last submerged for millions of years. The Palaeolithic remipede was found still extant in these caves, ancestor of the centipede and as toxic and nasty a predator.

Yet this San Andreas ridge-fault-ridge is claimed as the edge of a subducting tectonic plate. The dating provided by the UNESCO maps for the laid down basalt tells a completely different story. As an exercise one may like to follow the more typical Indian Ocean ridge and observe evidence for its extension along the Red Sea, the Jordan valley, the Sea of Galilee and the 500 m below sea level Dead Sea. From the other horn of the Red Sea the Mediterranean Sea formed much sooner with the rift visible without silt near Sicily & the cause of the volcanic Mount Etna. Rifting will quickly be seen to have formed all major oceans, with specific dating, provided by the legends, proven by correlation of the magnetic orientation with fossil evidence. Nothing older than 180 MYO basalt (or silt near land) exists in the oceans. The legend for land dating back to 4600 MYA is therefore very distinct for that under the 180 MY oceans, tell-tale stretchmarks on an expanding mother Earth. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, beecee said:

And still none of that rhetoric, proves or even hints at the unsupported claims in the OP. 

THE LAST WORD

 

Is this an unsupported claim of the Mainstream pack that BeeCee is supporting? Don’t you need to provide evidence that the UNESCO Geological Map of The World is nothing but a fantastically expensive, highly elaborate, but fraudulent fabrication, however monstrously preposterous that claim may be? An attempt to present evidence falsely for “Earth Expansion Tectonics”? Oddly the rest of the pack is thinned somewhat in its assault here. I am reminded of the Dingo (Australian Carolina Howler) pack, tag teaming a kangaroo while running it in a circle and bleeding it to exhaustion, so all can join in and feed until the next opportunity. Arbitrary and unsupported claims are clearly among the forum rules, virtually creating a shrinking circle so that a parrot's mindless diatribe seems more scientific than any contradiction. When defeated, the last word belongs to Mainstream regardless.

 

Plainly, unwelcome evidence is utterly ignored, flatly denied, and labelled virtual heresy, while no scientific hypothesis is true or false. (This honour belongs with Axiomatic Mathematics alone (see “Ideas and Opinions”, GEOMETRY AND EXPERIENCE, Lecture before the Prussian Academy of Sciences, January 27, 1921. The last part appeared first in a reprint by Springer, Berlin, 1921.) Before Trinity, you would have treated Einstein much the same way, and I'm not sure his work, as continued by others, hasn’t been rendered covert and publicly been twisted as handpicked Mainstream fluff by Academy financiers (Dark Matter, Quarks, &c.) to divert competition, and allay suspicion.

 

I have offered supporting evidence on many counts more solid than the evidence for "Science falsely so called" 1 Timothy 6:16-20 (note here Einstein's postulate already recognised and equated with consciousness itself 0 CE). The Bible is discounted in the same way, yet your coin, and all who "buy and sell globally " do so by commission of the IMF, as prophesied to Abraham Genesis 22:15-18. Your counter evidence – an alternate history of the Jews and explanation for almost impossible prophecies, is simply SILENCE & RIDICULE without KNOWLEDGE. A paraphrased quote from Arnie's "Total Recall” is called for: "I can have anything I want so long as I keep the Turd-idiom coming, and my only concern is losing it ALL. AND YOU'RE MAKING IT HAPPEN!" Movie theme, same as “The Matrix”. Logically, the first cause can only be known by its (virtual) effects. AMEN? This is the Ancient Egyptian name of God so understood, the Jewish “I AM THAT I AM” to Moses, ABBA (Father) to Christ and Christians, the CAUSE of The ONE FORCE (virtual, pseudo, and other assorted malarkey)?

 

So much for social media.

 

“On the chessboard lies and hypocrisy do not survive long. The creative combination lays bare the presumption of a lie. Merciless fact forces checkmate and contradicts the hypocrite.”

Emanual Lasker 1868-1941, World Chess Champion 1894-1921.

 

Emanuel & Albert argued the constant c. Emanuel was spared the proof that his “fact” was a lie supported by the dodge “nature abhors a vacuum and for all we know, in a vacuum the speed of light may well be infinite.” He impressed Albert in that he recognised that the concepts of time and space were under threat and sought a counter (rationalisation). They discussed the topic for 8 years in Bern, Switzerland on long walks. Russia took Emanuel & Chess until Bobby Fischer (who understandably renounced his citizenship, and was rescued by Iceland), The USA took Albert, E=mc^2 & The ABOMINATION of DESOLATION under threat of Hitler’s Imperialism, for a shorter while. This eventually placed the World on the brink. What can Science bring in the future and to whom? The Einstein-Lasker story by Bill Wall is attached for anyone interested, which includes some Chess games. The hieroglyph of a man cleaving his head with an axe represents ‘wickedness’, ‘enemy’, ‘death’ and ‘the dead’. This last is also metaphorically used to signify ‘atheists’ in scriptures, such as Matthew 8:22 and Revelation 11:18 KJV.

 

Einstein and Chess by Bill Wall.txt

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33 minutes ago, Olorin said:

THE LAST WORD

Not really.

34 minutes ago, Olorin said:

Is this an unsupported claim of the Mainstream pack that BeeCee is suporting?

Again, no.

35 minutes ago, Olorin said:

Don’t you need to provide evidence that the UNESCO Geological Map of The World is nothing but a fantastically expensive, highly elaborate, but fraudulent fabrication, however monstrously preposterous that claim may be?

It's your interpretation that is faulty at best and ridiculous at worst. Your pseudoreligious claims in the OP remain unsupported at best, and fanciful at worst.

49 minutes ago, Olorin said:

I have offered supporting evidence on many counts

No. All you have offered is a fanciful pseudoreligiously inspired interpretation.

54 minutes ago, Olorin said:

The Bible is discounted in the same way,

 Of course! In much the same way that Goldilocks and the Three Bears are discounted when speaking science and scientifically. The bible is nothing more then a vague obscure text, written in an obscure age, by obscure men, in an obscure manner.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_Earth

expanding Earth or growing Earth hypothesis asserts that the position and relative movement of continents is at least partially due to the volume of Earth increasing. Conversely, geophysical global cooling was the hypothesis that various features could be explained by Earth contracting.

Although it was suggested historically, since the recognition of plate tectonics in the 1970s, scientific consensus has rejected any significant expansion or contraction of Earth

 

 

Main arguments against Earth expansion[edit]

The hypothesis had never developed a plausible and verifiable mechanism of action.[15] During the 1960s, the theory of plate tectonics—initially based on the assumption that Earth's size remains constant, and relating the subduction zones to burying of lithosphere at a scale comparable to seafloor spreading[15]—became the accepted explanation in the Earth Sciences.

The scientific community finds that significant evidence contradicts the Expanding Earth theory, and that evidence used in support of it is better explained by plate tectonics:

  • Measurements with modern high-precision geodetic techniques and modeling of the measurements by the horizontal motions of independent rigid plates at the surface of a globe of free radius, were proposed as evidence that Earth is not currently increasing in size to within a measurement accuracy of 0.2 mm per year.[1] The lead author of the study stated "Our study provides an independent confirmation that the solid Earth is not getting larger at present, within current measurement uncertainties".[26]
  • The motions of tectonic plates and subduction zones measured by a large range of geological, geodetic and geophysical techniques supports plate tectonics.[27][3][28]
  • Imaging of lithosphere fragments within the mantle supports lithosphere consumption by subduction.[3][28]
  • Paleomagnetic data has been used to calculate that the radius of Earth 400 million years ago was 102 ± 2.8 percent of today's radius.[29][5] However, the methodology employed has been criticised by the Russian geologist Yuriy Chudinov.[30]
  • Examinations of data from the Paleozoic and Earth's moment of inertia suggest that there has been no significant change of Earth's radius in the last 620 million years.[
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https://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth20110816.html

A NASA-led research team has confirmed what Walt Disney told us all along: Earth really is a small world, after all.

Since Charles Darwin's time, scientists have speculated that the solid Earth might be expanding or contracting. That was the prevailing belief, until scientists developed the theory of plate tectonics, which explained the large-scale motions of Earth's lithosphere, or outermost shell. Even with the acceptance of plate tectonics half a century ago, some Earth and space scientists have continued to speculate on Earth's possible expansion or contraction on various scientific grounds.

Now a new NASA study, published recently in Geophysical Research Letters, has essentially laid those speculations to rest. Using a cadre of space measurement tools and a new data calculation technique, the team detected no statistically significant expansion of the solid Earth.

So why should we care if Mother Nature is growing? After all, Earth's shape is constantly changing. Tectonic forces such as earthquakes and volcanoes push mountains higher, while erosion and landslides wear them down. In addition, large-scale climate events like El Nino and La Nina redistribute vast water masses among Earth's ocean, atmosphere and land.

Scientists care because, to put movements of Earth's crust into proper context, they need a frame of reference to evaluate them against. Any significant change in Earth's radius will alter our understanding of our planet's physical processes and is fundamental to the branch of science called geodesy, which seeks to measure Earth's shape and gravity field, and how they change over time.

To make these measurements, the global science community established the International Terrestrial Reference Frame. This reference frame is used for ground navigation and for tracking spacecraft in Earth orbit. It is also used to monitor many aspects of global climate change, including sea level rise and its sources; imbalances in ice mass at Earth's poles; and the continuing rebound of Earth's surface following the retreat of the massive ice sheets that blanketed much of Earth during the last Ice Age.

But measuring changes in Earth's size hasn't exactly been easy for scientists to quite literally "get their arms around." After all, they can't just wrap a giant tape measure around Earth's belly to get a definitive reading. Fortunately, the field of high-precision space geodesy gives scientists tools they can use to estimate changes in Earth's radius. These include:

  • Satellite laser ranging -- a global observation station network that measures, with millimeter-level precision, the time it takes for ultrashort pulses of light to travel from the ground stations to satellites specially equipped with retroreflectors and back again.
  • Very-long baseline interferometry -- a radio astronomy technology that combines observations of an object made simultaneously by many telescopes to simulate a telescope as big as the maximum distance between the telescopes.
  • Global Positioning System -- the U.S.-built space-based global navigation system that provides users around the world with precise location and time information.
  • Doppler Orbitography and Radiopositioning Integrated by Satellite -- a French satellite system used to determine satellite orbits and positioning. Beacons on the ground emit radio signals that are received by satellites. The movement of the satellites causes a frequency shift of the signal that can be observed to determine ground positions and other information.

 

more at link.............................

 

conclusion of above article...."The result? The scientists estimated the average change in Earth's radius to be 0.004 inches (0.1 millimeters) per year, or about the thickness of a human hair, a rate considered statistically insignificant.

"Our study provides an independent confirmation that the solid Earth is not getting larger at present, within current measurement uncertainties," said Wu".

Edited by beecee
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12 hours ago, Olorin said:

THE LAST WORD

The problem with "the last word" is, it's either misunderstood or replaced...

12 hours ago, Olorin said:

I have offered supporting evidence on many counts more solid than the evidence for "Science falsely so called" 1 Timothy 6:16-20 (note here Einstein's postulate already recognised and equated with consciousness itself 0 CE). The Bible is discounted in the same way, yet your coin, and all who "buy and sell globally " do so by commission of the IMF, as prophesied to Abraham Genesis 22:15-18. Your counter evidence – an alternate history of the Jews and explanation for almost impossible prophecies, is simply SILENCE & RIDICULE without KNOWLEDGE.

You have misunderstood:

Quote

 The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring[a] all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

As did Abrahams biographer's; "because you have obeyed me.” should read "because you have understood me.”

Such a small change, that changes everything... 😉

Edited by dimreepr
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12 hours ago, Olorin said:

THE LAST WORD

 

Is this an unsupported claim of the Mainstream pack that BeeCee is supporting? Don’t you need to provide evidence that the UNESCO Geological Map of The World is nothing but a fantastically expensive, highly elaborate, but fraudulent fabrication, however monstrously preposterous that claim may be? An attempt to present evidence falsely for “Earth Expansion Tectonics”? Oddly the rest of the pack is thinned somewhat in its assault here. I am reminded of the Dingo (Australian Carolina Howler) pack, tag teaming a kangaroo while running it in a circle and bleeding it to exhaustion, so all can join in and feed until the next opportunity. Arbitrary and unsupported claims are clearly among the forum rules, virtually creating a shrinking circle so that a parrot's mindless diatribe seems more scientific than any contradiction. When defeated, the last word belongs to Mainstream regardless.

 

Plainly, unwelcome evidence is utterly ignored, flatly denied, and labelled virtual heresy, while no scientific hypothesis is true or false. (This honour belongs with Axiomatic Mathematics alone (see “Ideas and Opinions”, GEOMETRY AND EXPERIENCE, Lecture before the Prussian Academy of Sciences, January 27, 1921. The last part appeared first in a reprint by Springer, Berlin, 1921.) Before Trinity, you would have treated Einstein much the same way, and I'm not sure his work, as continued by others, hasn’t been rendered covert and publicly been twisted as handpicked Mainstream fluff by Academy financiers (Dark Matter, Quarks, &c.) to divert competition, and allay suspicion.

 

I have offered supporting evidence on many counts more solid than the evidence for "Science falsely so called" 1 Timothy 6:16-20 (note here Einstein's postulate already recognised and equated with consciousness itself 0 CE). The Bible is discounted in the same way, yet your coin, and all who "buy and sell globally " do so by commission of the IMF, as prophesied to Abraham Genesis 22:15-18. Your counter evidence – an alternate history of the Jews and explanation for almost impossible prophecies, is simply SILENCE & RIDICULE without KNOWLEDGE. A paraphrased quote from Arnie's "Total Recall” is called for: "I can have anything I want so long as I keep the Turd-idiom coming, and my only concern is losing it ALL. AND YOU'RE MAKING IT HAPPEN!" Movie theme, same as “The Matrix”. Logically, the first cause can only be known by its (virtual) effects. AMEN? This is the Ancient Egyptian name of God so understood, the Jewish “I AM THAT I AM” to Moses, ABBA (Father) to Christ and Christians, the CAUSE of The ONE FORCE (virtual, pseudo, and other assorted malarkey)?

 

So much for social media.

 

“On the chessboard lies and hypocrisy do not survive long. The creative combination lays bare the presumption of a lie. Merciless fact forces checkmate and contradicts the hypocrite.”

Emanual Lasker 1868-1941, World Chess Champion 1894-1921.

 

Emanuel & Albert argued the constant c. Emanuel was spared the proof that his “fact” was a lie supported by the dodge “nature abhors a vacuum and for all we know, in a vacuum the speed of light may well be infinite.” He impressed Albert in that he recognised that the concepts of time and space were under threat and sought a counter (rationalisation). They discussed the topic for 8 years in Bern, Switzerland on long walks. Russia took Emanuel & Chess until Bobby Fischer (who understandably renounced his citizenship, and was rescued by Iceland), The USA took Albert, E=mc^2 & The ABOMINATION of DESOLATION under threat of Hitler’s Imperialism, for a shorter while. This eventually placed the World on the brink. What can Science bring in the future and to whom? The Einstein-Lasker story by Bill Wall is attached for anyone interested, which includes some Chess games. The hieroglyph of a man cleaving his head with an axe represents ‘wickedness’, ‘enemy’, ‘death’ and ‘the dead’. This last is also metaphorically used to signify ‘atheists’ in scriptures, such as Matthew 8:22 and Revelation 11:18 KJV.

 

Einstein and Chess by Bill Wall.txt 12.8 kB · 3 downloads

!

Moderator Note

Not a whole lot of discussion of the OP, and multiple hits on what we consider arguing in bad faith.

Closed, and don’t bring either the geology or the physics of this tangent up again. This is a science discussion site, not Rants-R-Us

 

 
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