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Michael507

The possibility of generating Electricity from the thermal vibration of Electrons

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Heat energy basically is a measure of the average kinetic energy possessed by individual molecules of a substance i.e an increase in thermal energy of a substance is an increase in the kinetic energy of that substance. 
In metals the atoms are fixed in a crystal lattice and most the kinetic energy is possessed by free moving valence electrons moving and vibrating throughout the crystal lattice. 

Electric current is the net flow of electric charge. In metals this charge is carried by the valence electrons I.e. electric current in metal is a gross movement of electrons in that metal in the direction of the current.

However, thermal vibrational motion of electrons does not yield current. This is because in the case of thermal vibration, electrons move evenly in all directions thus there is no net flow of charge in any direction.

The objective of my research is to control the thermal vibration of electrons such that there would be a net flow of electrons in a direction thus generating electric current.

In the past, I carried out an experiment with the following setup:

1. A rectangular thin shit of metal was placed inside a magnetic field, the length of the metal shit extends out of the magnetic field.

2. The extended length was heated by Bunsen burner.

3. Copper wire was connected to either side of the metal shit inside the magnetic field.
The aim of the experiment was to test if as the metal shit gets heated by the Bunsen burner and the valence electrons gain kinetic energy, the horizontal component of the electrons vibrational motion cuts the magnetic lines of force in the field thereby accelerating the electron towards the North-pole causing a direct current to flow through the copper wires connected to both sides of the metal shit. However no detected at the two ends the copper wire.

The economic potential of this research is that heat energy can be converted directly to electricity and the efficiency of thermofuels would be increased by factor of over 500,000 since the since heat energy would not first be converted to mechanical energy like in piston and turbine engine generators.

I am looking for idea contributions for the development of this technology

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38 minutes ago, Michael507 said:

The economic potential of this research is that heat energy can be converted directly to electricity and the efficiency of thermofuels would be increased by factor of over 500,000 since the since heat energy would not first be converted to mechanical energy like in piston and turbine engine generators.

Can you show the calculations that gives that number?

Is your idea the same concept as a thermoelectric generator?

Quote

In 1821, Thomas Johann Seebeck rediscovered that a thermal gradient formed between two dissimilar conductors can produce electricity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoelectric_generator

 

38 minutes ago, Michael507 said:

metal shit extends out of the magnetic field

The spelling makes your text looking a bit funny, maybe not intended.

 

 

Edited by Ghideon

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It's "sheet"

5 hours ago, Michael507 said:

 
The economic potential of this research is that heat energy can be converted directly to electricity and the efficiency of thermofuels would be increased by factor of over 500,000 since the since heat energy would not first be converted to mechanical energy like in piston and turbine engine generators.

If you have a system that is 25% efficient already, how could you get an improvement of more than a factor of perhaps 2? So far it sounds like your experiment yielded nothing (which is not surprising) so your factor is currently zero. And if it were this simple, someone would have noticed by now. As it is, resistance of conductors generally increases with temperature, which lowers efficiency of electrical systems.

You need to support your claims with some physics.

 

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oh, and valence band electrons don't move, as they form the bonds.
Conduction band ( and sometimes semi-conduction band ) electrons ( and sometimes holes ) do.

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On 12/26/2020 at 8:34 AM, Michael507 said:

I am looking for idea contributions for the development of this technology

 

Is this a school project  ?

 

 

4 hours ago, MigL said:

oh, and valence band electrons don't move, as they form the bonds.
Conduction band ( and sometimes semi-conduction band ) electrons ( and sometimes holes ) do.

Well spotted. +1

On 12/26/2020 at 1:51 PM, swansont said:

If you have a system that is 25% efficient already, how could you get an improvement of more than a factor of perhaps 2?

25% * 2 = 50%

Why stop there ?

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3 hours ago, studiot said:

 

25% * 2 = 50%

Why stop there ?

Thermodynamics and realistic expectations 

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3 minutes ago, swansont said:

Thermodynamics and realistic expectations 

Thanks for the answer.

The OP doesn't appear to have been back and clearly copy/pasted words from somewhere (the background gives it away).

The question looks to me like one of those stupid projects set by arts graduate teachers to 12 year olds, who have not yet had the benefit of much Science teaching.

If this is the case then it would be good if we could offer some proper analysis and guidance, for instance pointing out that the elctron is 1800 times lighter than the proton/neutron and there are an average of perhaps 50 of these in a typical metal so most of the input themal energy will go into increasing the vibration rate  of the nuclei to raise their temperatures.

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First I apologize for my prolonged absence, I've been very busy.

But here is what I'm saying, in a steam engine operated induction generator for instance, heat energy is converted to mechanical energy used to move a copper coil through a magnetic field, the purpose of which is to make free(valence) electrons in the copper to cut magnetic flux lines in the field thereby generating flow of electrons(current) according to Faradays law of induction.

Now the mass of valence electron in a copper atom is 115837 times less than the mass of the whole copper atom. Mathematically, this means that 99.9991367% of thermo mechanical was wasted in generator just to move the electrons through the magnetic field.
So if it was possible to use the heat energy to move only the electrons without moving the whole atom, 115834.588 times more electric current would be generated.

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14 minutes ago, Michael507 said:

  

First I apologize for my prolonged absence, I've been very busy.

But here is what I'm saying, in a steam engine operated induction generator for instance, heat energy is converted to mechanical energy used to move a copper coil through a magnetic field, the purpose of which is to make free(valence) electrons in the copper to cut magnetic flux lines in the field thereby generating flow of electrons(current) according to Faradays law of induction.

Now the mass of valence electron in a copper atom is 115837 times less than the mass of the whole copper atom. Mathematically, this means that 99.9991367% of thermo mechanical was wasted in generator just to move the electrons through the magnetic field.
So if it was possible to use the heat energy to move only the electrons without moving the whole atom, 115834.588 times more electric current would be generated.

 

Two things are clear to me.

1) All other participents understood the gist of what you said the first time round so there was no need to repeat it.

2) You didn't listen to anything others said, since for instance you repeated your valence electron error (underlined), which is probably why you didn't respond to anyone.

banghead.gif.2cb0198df5966ae12dd7df80820e83b0.gif

 


 

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27 minutes ago, Michael507 said:

 Now the mass of valence electron in a copper atom is 115837 times less than the mass of the whole copper atom. Mathematically, this means that 99.9991367% of thermo mechanical was wasted in generator just to move the electrons through the magnetic field.

This suggests that generators are ~0.001% efficient, which is ridiculous.

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36 minutes ago, Michael507 said:

Now the mass of valence electron in a copper atom is 115837 times less than the mass of the whole copper atom. Mathematically, this means that 99.9991367% of thermo mechanical was wasted in generator just to move the electrons through the magnetic field.
So if it was possible to use the heat energy to move only the electrons without moving the whole atom, 115834.588 times more electric current would be generated.

 

5 minutes ago, swansont said:

This suggests that generators are ~0.001% efficient, which is ridiculous.

 

Just to expand on swansont's words.

Can I gently suggest/offer a lesson in basic efficiency Physics?

It take some energy once and once only  to get a generator mass spinning.

Once spinning all you loose (inefficiency) is the frictional loss in the bearings.

The greater part of the input mechnaical energy is output as electrical energy.

Of course there are also the inefficiencies of converting thermal energy to mechanical energy.

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