J.C.MacSwell 447 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) On 1/11/2021 at 4:53 PM, beecee said: If a person is in severe pain and his condition is terminal anyway, he/she should be able to decide that they have had enough, sad as that may be. Which sort of raises another question...A few years ago, my Mum at 86 years of age, who was still living in her own apartment, [not far from my house] and under my care, had a fall. We called the Ambulance and she was transported to Hospital. A couple of days later, I got a call that there was no hope for her survival, and that the medical team needed my OK to switch off life support. Sorry to hear that Beecee. My mother in law still lives on her own, despite a few falls, at 89, and I've supported her decision to do so. She's said she's determined to make it to 90. Tonight she was in especially good spirits and we joked about her making it to the point of technology having her live forever. But the risks of living alone are understood. Edited January 16 by J.C.MacSwell 1 Link to post Share on other sites
beecee 567 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 17 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said: Sorry to hear that Beecee. My mother in law still lives on her own, despite a few falls, at 89, and I've supported her decision to do so. She's said she's determined to make it to 90. Tonight she was in especially good spirits and we joked about her making it to the point of technology having her live forever. But the risks of living alone are understood. Yeah my Mum was going to be forced into a nursing home and she gave them more then a piece of her mind and told them what to do. It was only that she decided to sell and move into a unit not far from me that they reconsidered. Our health care system though also inspected the unit, and installed railings in the bathroom, and other areas to facilitate here getting around easier, and she never really needed to use the stove with delivery of those already made meals at a small cost. Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 18 hours ago, beecee said: Yeah my Mum was going to be forced into a nursing home and she gave them more then a piece of her mind and told them what to do. It was only that she decided to sell and move into a unit not far from me that they reconsidered. Our health care system though also inspected the unit, and installed railings in the bathroom, and other areas to facilitate here getting around easier, and she never really needed to use the stove with delivery of those already made meals at a small cost. The other side of that coin, a friend of mine was invited to not be resuscitated, by a doctor, because he was a heavy drinker/smoker... Link to post Share on other sites
Zerbo 0 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I think there should be an opportunity for people who really want it. What else is the way out? In the end, you find another option. It is better to have a controlled possibility and not endanger other people. I have a relative myself who shot himself. He was terminally ill and did not want to die in the hospital after a long period of suffering. I can understand even if I might still be hoping it could change something for the better. If you have agreed on that, then it should be your own decision. I don't have to come up with any morals or ethics. I think everyone can make this decision themselves and then doesn't need a person to show why it supposedly shouldn't work. Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 26 minutes ago, Zerbo said: I think there should be an opportunity for people who really want it. What else is the way out? In the end, you find another option. It is better to have a controlled possibility and not endanger other people. I have a relative myself who shot himself. He was terminally ill and did not want to die in the hospital after a long period of suffering. I can understand even if I might still be hoping it could change something for the better. If you have agreed on that, then it should be your own decision. I don't have to come up with any morals or ethics. I think everyone can make this decision themselves and then doesn't need a person to show why it supposedly shouldn't work. Because, from time to time we all get sad...😪 Link to post Share on other sites
zapatos 1717 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 hour ago, dimreepr said: Because, from time to time we all get sad...😪 That is not an accurate depiction of Zerbo's relative's situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Prof Reza Sanaye 22 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 The right to commit suicide ought not to be taken away from mature citizens. Consultation houses have to be established especially for this purposes to give Pause and Reason enough to the suicidal(s). There is even no reason why they should not be assisted in doing it "perfectly". However , with the statistics indicating that at least two thirds of suicidals committing actual suicide become repentant [very] soon after that ( ie, before their final death) , a moratorium is of vital importance before somebody takes their own life.... 2 Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 On 2/14/2021 at 3:24 PM, zapatos said: That is not an accurate depiction of Zerbo's relative's situation. But it is an accurate dipiction of Zerbo/our situation, I'm not saying suicide is wrong; it just needs careful inquiry, for accuracy. On 2/14/2021 at 4:22 PM, Prof Reza Sanaye said: The right to commit suicide ought not to be taken away from mature citizens. Consultation houses have to be established especially for this purposes to give Pause and Reason enough to the suicidal(s). There is even no reason why they should not be assisted in doing it "perfectly". However , with the statistics indicating that at least two thirds of suicidals committing actual suicide become repentant [very] soon after that ( ie, before their final death) , a moratorium is of vital importance before somebody takes their own life.... Indeed, at last we agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Prof Reza Sanaye 22 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Dimreepr said to me : Indeed, at last we agree. Surely we do agree on many more things than you might right now guess : When I introduce nearly the whole of my teams' post"modern methodologies .. . . . .Hhmmm ?????? Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 minutes ago, Prof Reza Sanaye said: Dimreepr said to me : Indeed, at last we agree. Surely we do agree on many more things than you might right now guess : When I introduce nearly the whole of my teams' post"modern methodologies .. . . . .Hhmmm ????? In the immortal words of Monty Python, "You were lucky"... Link to post Share on other sites
Prof Reza Sanaye 22 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 As U wish !! Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, Prof Reza Sanaye said: As U wish !! LOL, what are you going to do; wish me to death? "I got up half an hour before I went to bed"... 😉 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Function 85 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 On 12/8/2020 at 5:33 PM, zapatos said: Yes. With the stipulation that the person is of 'sound' mind. Whatever that means. I've not thought through the details. I think, no. Anyone with active suicidal thoughts is believed to not be of "sound" mind. Suicide often leads from mental illnesses, such as depression, which most of the time can be treated; denying adequate treatment would be wrong. If refractory, or untreatable, leading to unbearable suffering, in some countries, like here in Belgium, one can ask (and run through some procedures) for euthanasia. Link to post Share on other sites
Prof Reza Sanaye 22 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 hours ago, dimreepr said: LOL, what are you going to do; wish me to death? "I got up half an hour before I went to bed"... 😉 I wish U the best of wishes. . . .. .Shall live // by the help of Almighty Jesus // to be 101 Yrz old . . . .Even if only Iv gottN lots and lots 2 do with U in some of the most advanced branches of theoretical-applied knowledge . . . We'r gonna patent a dozN patntz . ... Link to post Share on other sites
zapatos 1717 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Function said: Anyone with active suicidal thoughts is believed to not be of "sound" mind. Citation please. Link to post Share on other sites
Prof Reza Sanaye 22 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, zapatos said: Anyone with active suicidal thoughts is believed to not be of "sound" mind.//ZAPATOS Excuse me ! I am a certified psychoanalyst . .. Your statement is not universally true . .. Link to post Share on other sites
beecee 567 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 At my current age of 76 years, I'm still enjoying life and have no real health problems. In actual fact I plan on living forever: So far, I'm doing OK. 😉 2 Link to post Share on other sites
zapatos 1717 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 28 minutes ago, Prof Reza Sanaye said: I am a certified psychoanalyst . .. Your statement is not universally true . .. Citation please. Link to post Share on other sites
Ten oz 984 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I don't personally view this question in terms of ethics or morality. I think under normal circumstances life always seeks to perpetuate life. IMO suicide is abnormal. It exists when there is an other than typical circumstance like an illness or disorder. I see it as beyond individual control (choice) which is why I do not apply morality and ethics to it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
iNow 5963 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Does the conversation change at all if we include nonhuman animals taking their own lives? I'm thinking of beached whales and the like... Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, iNow said: Does the conversation change at all if we include nonhuman animals taking their own lives? I'm thinking of beached whales and the like... Did they get, counselling? 3 hours ago, Ten oz said: I don't personally view this question in terms of ethics or morality. I think under normal circumstances life always seeks to perpetuate life. IMO suicide is abnormal. It exists when there is an other than typical circumstance like an illness or disorder. I see it as beyond individual control (choice) which is why I do not apply morality and ethics to it. It's a bitter sweet symphony... Link to post Share on other sites
Firebirdy 5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) I think it depends on the situation. But, I would say that suicide is freedom to not live anymore when one seeks peace and quiet in a world that prevents peace and quiet. Making suicide attempts illegal is a form of slavery that makes the people who don't want to live anymore that want to free themselves from a world of pain and suffering be hostages. Which will cause some people who think for themselves to be sneaky when they try to commit suicide so government authorities won't stop them from committing suicide. Successfully committing suicide willingly does not happen as often as people wanting to live on Earth. That's what I'll agree on. I would also agree that a person being forced to commit suicide by a bully is morally wrong. And I would say that a person saying that another person should kill themselves is morally wrong, too. Edited March 18 by Firebirdy Link to post Share on other sites
Bufofrog 185 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 7 hours ago, Firebirdy said: Making suicide attempts illegal is a form of slavery I think you need to look up the definition of slavery. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
dimreepr 1093 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 1 hour ago, Bufofrog said: I think you need to look up the definition of slavery. And irony, since this thread has been resurrected twice... Link to post Share on other sites
Firebirdy 5 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 (edited) No, it's slavery because people who don't want to live anymore and are trying to end their lives are being treated like property to the government against their will because they being forced to live instead of quitting their own lives to stop working for the people who made suicide illegal in the government like slaves. Here's the definition of slavery: "Slavery and enslavement are both the state and the condition of being a slave, who is someone forbidden to quit their service for another person." For example, forbidden/illegal to try to commit suicide to end services of working with other people in the government forcefully. It's called slavery and ownership of a person's life as property when a government tries to make it illegal for people to try to willingly commit suicide to end services of working for people in the government because freedom is what allows people to freely end their lives when they can't be satisfied with living anymore without dealing with government authorities trying to stop them, it's slavery from forcing the people who want to die to live against their will because the government is controlling their lives like slaves who could try to sneakily find ways to end their lives to avoid getting caught by government authorities from the government authorities that enforce the idea that attempting suicide is illegal rather than free people who can easily end their lives when they want to without having to hide their suicide attempts from government authorities. Edited March 18 by Firebirdy Link to post Share on other sites
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