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Simmer

Perpetual Energy?

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I saw something today as I was at the bp gas station in reno

 

a pendulum, made of metal, swinging back and forth by the force of magnitism

one under, two on the sides of the pendulum

 

could this be an example of perpetual energy?

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8 minutes ago, Simmer said:

could this be an example of perpetual energy?

What is perpetual energy?

 

10 minutes ago, Simmer said:

a pendulum, made of metal, swinging back and forth by the force of magnitism

 

All such devices that I have seen were battery powered, often with electronics hidden to make the movement look like perpetual motion. 
Perpetual motion machines are not physically possible.

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Actually, they are just as possible as frictionless surfaces :) .

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Why do you need magnets to make a pendulum swing back and forth? 

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5 hours ago, Simmer said:

I saw something today as I was at the bp gas station in reno

 

a pendulum, made of metal, swinging back and forth by the force of magnitism

one under, two on the sides of the pendulum

 

could this be an example of perpetual energy?

Very much so. All that energy is conserved. It just degrades over time into a form less able to do work, generally as heat.

Edited by J.C.MacSwell

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Probably battery powered, maybe with electro magnets that flip polarity in synch with the pendulum. Permanent batteries cannot be arranged in any way that results in perpetual swing of a pendulum.

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8 hours ago, Ken Fabian said:

Probably battery powered, maybe with electro magnets that flip polarity in synch with the pendulum. Permanent batteries cannot be arranged in any way that results in perpetual swing of a pendulum.

Why not ?

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1 hour ago, studiot said:

Why not ?

That would make it a perpetual motion machine of the third kind. An idealized frictionless mechanism that cannot actually exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#:~:text=A perpetual motion machine of,thermal energy into mechanical work.

  • A perpetual motion machine of the third kind is usually (but not always)[15][self-published source] defined as one that completely eliminates friction and other dissipative forces, to maintain motion forever due to its mass inertia (Third in this case refers solely to the position in the above classification scheme, not the third law of thermodynamics). It is impossible to make such a machine,[16][17] as dissipation can never be completely eliminated in a mechanical system, no matter how close a system gets to this ideal (see examples in the Low Friction section).

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1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

That would make it a perpetual motion machine of the third kind. An idealized frictionless mechanism that cannot actually exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion#:~:text=A perpetual motion machine of,thermal energy into mechanical work.

  • A perpetual motion machine of the third kind is usually (but not always)[15][self-published source] defined as one that completely eliminates friction and other dissipative forces, to maintain motion forever due to its mass inertia (Third in this case refers solely to the position in the above classification scheme, not the third law of thermodynamics). It is impossible to make such a machine,[16][17] as dissipation can never be completely eliminated in a mechanical system, no matter how close a system gets to this ideal (see examples in the Low Friction section).

Edit Nothing you have said is wrong but

How does that have any bearing (pun intended) on my question  ?

I wasn't discussing Friction.

Edited by studiot

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11 hours ago, Ken Fabian said:

Permanent batteries cannot be arranged in any way that results in perpetual swing of a pendulum.

(emphasis mine)

If some permanent batteries really existed, supplying power for an infinite amount of time, then I guess it would allow for perpetual swinging pendulums. Ken probably meant permanent magnets.

 

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7 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

(emphasis mine)

If some permanent batteries really existed, supplying power for an infinite amount of time, then I guess it would allow for perpetual swinging pendulums. Ken probably meant permanent magnets.

 

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

Perhaps that is why I have never come across a 'permanent battery', except as an idealised voltage source in a circuit diagram.

However such a source could indeed be arranged to power a pendulum.

I did not take permanent to mean inexhaustible however, I took it to mean fixed in polarity, given the rest of the text.

Perhaps I was wrong.

 

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31 minutes ago, studiot said:

Edit Nothing you have said is wrong but

How does that have any bearing (pun intended) on my question  ?

I wasn't discussing Friction.

Sorry. I read that as permanent magnets.

I guess the answer would be that permanent batteries cannot exist.

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Ah, yes. Magnets not batteries. Batteries to power the electromagnets. I should proof read what I write.

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On 10/28/2020 at 7:20 PM, MigL said:

Actually, they are just as possible as frictionless surfaces :) .

They're actually quite common....as long as nothing is on them.

...and I'll see myself out....😄

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