farsideofmoon Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ghideon said: It takes energy to compress 300 cubic feet of air to 18 ATM. When losses are accounted for there will be more power needed to run the system than it will generate. What needs to be determined or calculated is how much energy it takes to fill one balloon compared to the force generated by the ten (10) balloons pulling together. Just saying its not enough is not enough to discount this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: It is the combined lifting force of the ten balloons that generates the real power. While it only takes the energy to blow up one balloon at a time to keep the system running. I call this the multiplying effect Whether you inflate one balloon or 10 balloons at a time, are you going to answer my question as to how much energy it takes per balloon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: What needs to be determined or calculated is how much energy it takes to fill one balloon compared to the force generated by the ten (10) balloons pulling together. Just saying its not enough is not enough to discount this idea. The multiplying you describe does not exist. Each one ballon that pops up at the surface is replaced by one refilled ballon at the bottom. Every ballon has to be filled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsideofmoon Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, studiot said: Whether you inflate one balloon or 10 balloons at a time, are you going to answer my question as to how much energy it takes per balloon? That is what I am trying to figure out. I also came up with another way to get the gas to run the system. Thermal vents are under a huge pressure. The pressure is so great that the gases do not bubble out as a gas. If we could pipe that compressed gas upwards the gases would bubble out and this gas could be used to run the system. One small draw back, this gas os over a mile down. 10 minutes ago, Ghideon said: The multiplying you describe does not exist. Each one ballon that pops up at the surface is replaced by one refilled ballon at the bottom. Every ballon has to be filled. You need to look at this in time. At any one moment in time, ten (10) balloons are pulling “together” while at any one moment in time you are only filling one (1) ballon. Or a better way to look at this as umbrellas. Edited April 13, 2020 by farsideofmoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsideofmoon Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 Strange-- Please forgive me. I will never again post in one of your forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: I also came up with another way to get the gas to run the system. Thermal vents are under a huge pressure. The pressure is so great that the gases do not bubble out as a gas. If we could pipe that compressed gas upwards the gases would bubble out and this gas could be used to run the system. One small draw back, this gas os over a mile down. Harnessing power from thermal vents seems to be a completely different idea. I can't judge the plausibility of the rising ballon idea vs other ideas* 32 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: You need to look at this in time. At any one moment in time, ten (10) balloons are pulling “together” while at any one moment in time you are only filling one (1) ballon. But all those ten ballons required energy to be filled in the first place. Unless filled by magic, they were filled one by one. You have already spent energy to fill 10 ballons when starting to fill ballon number 11. *) Discussing deep sea turbines driven by heat from the vents etc. seems like topic for a separate thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farsideofmoon Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ghideon said: Discussing deep sea turbines driven by heat from the vents etc. seems like topic for a separate thread I just note the hydrothermal vents as an example, I do not intend to discuss that potential energy source here or anywhere else. Having said that I will close this with this ed Edited April 13, 2020 by farsideofmoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 47 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: You need to look at this in time. At any one moment in time, ten (10) balloons are pulling “together” while at any one moment in time you are only filling one (1) ballon. ! Moderator Note Unless you can demonstrate, mathematically, that this will work (and all the people pointing out that it wasn't are wrong) then I will close this thread. Over to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: Strange-- Please forgive me. I will never again post in one of your forums ! Moderator Note There is nothing to forgive. You are welcome to post here, as long as you follow the rules. One of the rules is that ideas in the Speculations forum must be supported with theory or evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghideon Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, farsideofmoon said: I just note the hydrothermal vents as an example, I do not intend to discuss that potential energy source here or anywhere else. Ok*. If you are interested in the physics behind how your initially suggested ballon device is impossible as power source, just post a question in the mainstream section; there are plenty of members that will help. *) Hydrothermal vents related power may be more plausible than your original idea. Edited April 13, 2020 by Ghideon clarified sentence. Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) Using geothermal energy is a great way to get energy. Unfortunately for your diagram, the laws of (fluid) mechanics do not allow pumping in the manner described. Above a certain lift head, pumps need to be placed at the bottom of the lift, not the top and need to be what is known as a positive displacement type. Edited April 13, 2020 by studiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 hours ago, farsideofmoon said: It is the combined lifting force of the ten balloons that generates the real power. While it only takes the energy to blow up one balloon at a time to keep the system running. I call this the multiplying effect Call it what you want. It takes more energy to run than it generates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 ! Moderator Note OK. The OP is clearly not able to defend the claims about this system. This thread is closed. Do not bring this up again. If you want to discuss your thermal vent idea, start a new thread. But be prepared to put more effort into it than this one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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