# The world has changed...

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3 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Instead we can use our work ethic to have a little more comfort/toys/stuff than those arseholes that depend on the robots to have the basics to live; by arseholes I of course, mean those who for some reason or another isn't quite as capable as the rest of us.

You mean arseholes like the disabled, elderly etc..

looking at the current situation, I'd say having robots doing work for us would be an positive not a negative.

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8 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

You mean arseholes like the disabled, elderly etc..

I mean we should stop pointing at others, full stop...

8 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

looking at the current situation, I'd say having robots doing work for us would be an positive not a negative.

I'd say the same, if we don't point at them.

18 minutes ago, Curious layman said:

You mean arseholes like the disabled, elderly etc..

For the record, I mean arseholes like me...

Edited by dimreepr
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1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

For the record, I mean arseholes like me...

Opinionated- yes

Cryptic- yes

Arsehole- nah, you're cool bro. 😎

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2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What's the point of an economy?

To feed, shelter and protect the populace, or to collect paper, at the expense of that populace?

The 'economy' was actually the first means to re-distribute wealth.
( whatever 'wealth' meant at the time )

In pre-historic times, you exchanged 'work' for food, provided by the tribe.
In medieval times, you exchanged work for a parcel of land that you worked for yourself.
Today we exchange 'work' for something that takes the place of food, land, or other forms of wealth; we call it money.

In all of these cases, the 'economy' is the means for survival.
( although a case could be made that you don't really need an iPhone 11 pro )

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24 minutes ago, MigL said:

In all of these cases, the 'economy' is the means for survival.
( although a case could be made that you don't really need an iPhone 11 pro )

Indeed, but not who survives...

Edited by dimreepr
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• 2 weeks later...
On 4/6/2020 at 3:54 PM, MigL said:

In pre-historic times, you exchanged 'work' for food, provided by the tribe.
In medieval times, you exchanged work for a parcel of land that you worked for yourself.
Today we exchange 'work' for something that takes the place of food, land, or other forms of wealth; we call it money.

And now we exchange 'dreams' for (barely enough) food, from the makers of dreams; while we sit and watch the safety film, rather than the mountain we're about to crash into; this break, from insanity, really is our last lucid moment (perhaps we should think about it)...

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On 4/4/2020 at 5:27 PM, Sensei said:

10 mln jobless people in the US. Within two weeks.

Update: 22 millions jobless people in the USA. Within four weeks.

How well and wisely these people spend their "vacations".. ?

I would suggest them to read and learn C/C++ from e.g. https://www.cplusplus.com/

and/or web design/programming https://www.w3schools.com/

and/or PHP https://www.php.net/

and other computer related activities, which can be remotely performed.

It will more wisely spent time that on the front of TV watching entire Netflix all day long..

There are migrants who don't know language. It is good moment to teach them English. Because everything in USA spins around money, everybody should get prepaid Visa/Mastercard with their name, uploaded with money once a day e.g. $30-$50. Person goes to special on-line training website. Performs tests and when they are okay, extra money appears on their prepaid card. We have teaching connected with economic help.

For instance, language teaching on-line website could have dictionary of English words or entire sentences. It randomly picks up word/sentence, and couple equivalent meaning to select by user the right one. If somebody selects wrong version, the right one is highlighted (perhaps with image of thing or action, context in which it is used etc.), and new question appears. It should have play button to hear sound sample of word/sentence. It is repeated cycle for e.g. 20, 50, 100 words to learn per day, adjusted to skill of individual. After doing this test for a few hours, even not really bright person, will pick up the right words/sentences. At the end, there is uploaded extra money with amount correlating to score (amount of good/bad answers). System remembers which words/sentences individual learned, and only occasionally rechecks them in the future, giving every day new set of words/sentences.

Edited by Sensei
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4 hours ago, Sensei said:

How well and wisely these people spend their "vacations".. ?

Unemployed people with young kids aren't on "vacation," I can assure you. If you're able to teach yourself a new programming language while out of work, then good on you, but that's not how life operates for folks with other responsibilties.

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20 hours ago, Sensei said:

How well and wisely these people spend their "vacations".. ?

It's this kind of talk that muddies the water.

People only ever have a problem with the less fortunate when they IMAGINE; they're doing it on purpose and somehow costing them for the privilege.

But look at it from a different angle:

1. The lazy/unfortunate people get to eat (and drink...) and the wannabees get to strive for more.

2. The bankers can profit from both.

Edited by dimreepr
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I think it's likely to have the opposite effect, with even less people caring about the environment or "big problems" because of this crisis.

Our economic system is still dog eat dog, no matter how you look at it.  Yeah, the government has made some token efforts, which is barely enough for most people, but the only people I see who are content with the current state of economic affairs (i.e. total economic shutdown) are those who are financially insulated (i.e. the extremely wealthy, those with cushy jobs, and people who depend on others, such as children who live with their parents, for financial subsistence).

Everyone else is in one heck of a nightmarish survival situation.  And frankly, when you can't put food on the table to feed your family and are facing a towering wall of apathy from society,  issues like global warming seem like pompous trivialities.  At the end of the day this is why people are out protesting the shutdown - they're dying anyway.  They might as well work and face the possibility of infection rather than starve to death in silence at home.

Edited by Alex_Krycek
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49 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

I think it's likely to have the opposite effect, with even less people caring about the environment or "big problems" because of this crisis.

Our economic system is still dog eat dog, no matter how you look at it.  Yeah, the government has made some token efforts, which is barely enough for most people, but the only people I see who are content with the current state of economic affairs (i.e. total economic shutdown) are those who are financially insulated (i.e. the extremely wealthy, those with cushy jobs, and people who depend on others, such as children who live with their parents, for financial subsistence).

Everyone else is in one heck of a nightmarish survival situation.  And frankly, when you can't put food on the table to feed your family and are facing a towering wall of apathy from society,  issues like global warming seem like pompous trivialities.  At the end of the day this is why people are out protesting the shutdown - they're dying anyway.  They might as well work and face the possibility of infection rather than starve to death in silence at home.

Then so be it, because if we fail to see this as mother natures warning and wantonly scramble to return to the banality of fashion et al.

How many people have to starve, before we realise that money has no value (nutritionally)?

In essence money is a means to quantify eggs in terms of a pig or house (how many eggs for a rasher etc.), it's ephemeral and only has meaning while we choice to cooperate on the semantics.

My point is, wealth in terms of money is meaningless without farmers and builders et al...

Edited by dimreepr
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The arogance of the wealthy is that we will always have 'enough people' who can be farmers and builders; without the need of teachers...

Neatly summarised here:

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6 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Then so be it, because if we fail to see this as mother natures warning and wantonly scramble to return to the banality of fashion et al.

How many people have to starve, before we realise that money has no value (nutritionally)?

In essence money is a means to quantify eggs in terms of a pig or house (how many eggs for a rasher etc.), it's ephemeral and only has meaning while we choice to cooperate on the semantics.

My point is, wealth in terms of money is meaningless without farmers and builders et al...

Ok, then why don't you give all your money away today then, to help someone else out?

Seeing as it has no value to you...

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18 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Ok, then why don't you give all your money away today then, to help someone else out?

Seeing as it has no value to you...

That's a passible strawman, who taught you?

Edited by dimreepr
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It's value is our co-operation.

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7 hours ago, dimreepr said:

That's a passible strawman, who taught you?

You just stated that money has no value.

Your vague utopian ideology is no solution at all for people bearing the economic brunt of this crisis.

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2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

In essence money is a means to quantify eggs in terms of a pig or house (how many eggs for a rasher etc.), it's ephemeral and only has meaning while we choice to cooperate on the semantics.

My point is, wealth in terms of money is meaningless without farmers and builders et al...

Yes, that is standard monetary economics and has been understood for the past 7000 years.

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12 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

You just stated that money has no value.

Your vague utopian ideology is no solution at all for people bearing the economic brunt of this crisis.

I stated money can't be eaten and strongly suggested utopia can't be found...

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55 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

You just stated that money has no value.

No. It would be more reasonable to say that he said/implied money has no intrinsic value.

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On 4/16/2020 at 12:17 PM, Sensei said:

There are migrants who don't know language. It is good moment to teach them English. Because everything in USA spins around money, everybody should get prepaid Visa/Mastercard with their name, uploaded with money once a day e.g. $30-$50. Person goes to special on-line training website. Performs tests and when they are okay, extra money appears on their prepaid card. We have teaching connected with economic help.

What if they have kids?

What if they can't put food on the table now because they don't have a job, and you want them to go take tests in order to be worthy to get money?

Yet, they can't study for said tests because they have kids?

And they were able to have a job before, because their kids were in school, but can't study now, because their kids aren't?

Also, $30-$50 a day? That's less then minimum wage.

Edited by Raider5678
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20 hours ago, zapatos said:

Yes, that is standard monetary economics and has been understood for the past 7000 years.

Yet here we are, somehow blind to the fact that economies thrive through the cooperation of society/societies, which includes everyone; we have enough for everyone and we are family??? So why are people starving?

The irony is, some fashion model's starve themselves...

Edited by dimreepr
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4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Yet here we are, somehow blind to the fact that economies thrive through the cooperation of society/societies

Speak for yourself. The rest of us know how things work.

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

So why are people starving?

Sounds like you need to open a new thread. This has been studied extensively.

4 hours ago, dimreepr said:

The irony is, some fashion model's starve themselves...

Most of them don't starve themselves; they are simply limiting caloric intake in order to stay slim. The ones who starve themselves have bigger problems (e.g. anorexia) and you don't have to be a model to have that disease.

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21 hours ago, zapatos said:

Speak for yourself. The rest of us know how things work.

Sounds like you need to open a new thread. This has been studied extensively.

The point of this thread is that things have changed; suddenly we see the workers who are fundamental to a functioning society and, by extention, the economy; and it's by and large the worst paid, who often have to rely on charity (food bank's) to make ends meet (even in wealthy countries).

And there's enough for us all.

21 hours ago, zapatos said:

Most of them don't starve themselves; they are simply limiting caloric intake in order to stay slim. The ones who starve themselves have bigger problems (e.g. anorexia) and you don't have to be a model to have that disease.

Their work is almost completely unnecessary, when we consider a sustainable economy, (the irony is) they don't need to work too eat...

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1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

The point of this thread is that things have changed; suddenly we see the workers who are fundamental to a functioning society and, by extention, the economy; and it's by and large the worst paid, who often have to rely on charity (food bank's) to make ends meet (even in wealthy countries).

And there's enough for us all.

Their work is almost completely unnecessary, when we consider a sustainable economy, (the irony is) they don't need to work too eat...

You are more slippery than a greased pig.

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Nailing Jell-o to a wall comes to mind

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