Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Alex_Krycek

UFO conspiracy hijack (split from Element 115 as Flying Saucer Fuel)

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, Strange said:

He appears to be a fantasist:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Lazar

If his mundane claims are shown to be false, why would you give any credibility to his extraordinary claims?

If indeed Lazar did work at a top secret military facility such as S-4, it would have been incredibly easy for the government to erase his academic / employment history had they wanted to.  It's ridiculous to suggest that the US government wouldn't be able to accomplish such a trivial feat within days. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/21/2020 at 9:39 PM, swansont said:

What would the point of watching be? Why does Lazar have any credibility, in your view?

Lazar's "credibility" is debatable and subjective.  As to the events which supposedly occurred, (i.e. extraterrestrials visiting Earth and making contact with human beings) I find this hypothesis plausible.  Over billions upon billions of years, with trillions of star systems and trillions of inhabitable planets, at some point a species will arise that could reach Earth.  It's inevitable, in my view, due to the sheer number of inhabitable planets out there.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

If indeed Lazar did work at a top secret military facility such as S-4, it would have been incredibly easy for the government to erase his academic / employment history had they wanted to.  It's ridiculous to suggest that the US government wouldn't be able to accomplish such a trivial feat within days. 

How does one "erase" someone's academic/employment history? I cannot imagine how many places a record of me exists. Secure databases at universities, Linkedin, paper files, peoples' memories, professor's notebooks, yearbooks, class photos, publications, etc., etc. etc.

I suspect the US government could never accomplish such a task.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, zapatos said:

How does one "erase" someone's academic/employment history? I cannot imagine how many places a record of me exists. Secure databases at universities, Linkedin, paper files, peoples' memories, professor's notebooks, yearbooks, class photos, publications, etc., etc. etc.

We're talking about the 1980s.  A person's digital footprint was practically nonexistent back then.  Expunge / destroy somone's paper records and locate any possible computer records and that would have been that.  As far as people's memories - according to George Knapp, the journalist who has investigated Lazar's case thoroughly, when they went to Los Alamos many former colleagues recognized and interacted with Lazar.

Quote

I suspect the US government could never accomplish such a task.

Your perception of the the capabilities of the US government is incorrect, in that case.  

Edited by Alex_Krycek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

B Lazar has been making these claims for over 20 yrs.
I distinctly remember seeing him on TV shows dealing with UFOs in the 90s.

Wouldn't the simpler explanation be that he has no academic records from MIT/Caltech, rather than the Government 'scrubbed' them ?

1 hour ago, Alex_Krycek said:

at some point a species will arise that could reach Earth.  It's inevitable, in my view, due to the sheer number of inhabitable planets out there.  

And what makes us so special that they'd want to play 'cat and mouse' games with us ?
You'd think they would explore the galaxy, not anally probe Americans from southern states.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MigL said:

And what makes us so special that they'd want to play 'cat and mouse' games with us ?

Sheer curiosity.  A characteristic of all intelligent species is an impulse to discover and investigate the universe around them.

To some (myself excluded) insects aren't that interesting, and yet there are thousands of people who devote their entire careers to entomology.

Also, misanthropic tendencies aside, human beings are fascinating creatures, not to mention dangerous.  We've also developed the capacity to explore space, albeit in an extremely limited way.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Your perception of the the capabilities of the US government is incorrect, in that case.  

What exactly are their capabilities and how do you know that information?

10 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

the journalist who has investigated Lazar's case thoroughly, when they went to Los Alamos many former colleagues recognized and interacted with Lazar.

And how would one erase their memories?

11 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Expunge / destroy somone's paper records and locate any possible computer records and that would have been that.

How does the government locate a yearbook I have in my basement? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, zapatos said:

What exactly are their capabilities and how do you know that information?

Spend some time researching DARPA and the NRO.  Click here to see some of the programs that have been / are declassified.  https://www.darpa.mil/our-research  Just the tip of the iceberg.  And yet we're arguing over whether they could erase someone's academic or work history in the 1980s.

7 hours ago, zapatos said:

And how would one erase their memories?

They didn't.  Those people remembered Lazar, according to Knapp.  

7 hours ago, zapatos said:

How does the government locate a yearbook I have in my basement? 

They didn't - we're not talking about Bob Lazar's high school days.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

A characteristic of all intelligent species is an impulse to discover and investigate the universe around them.

So let me get this straight. A race of aliens travels at least 50 LY ( We've been transmitting EMR for 100 yrs, anyone closer than 50 LY could have signaled back ) and when they get here, they hide from us ?
Maybe I'm not a super-intelligent alien, but that seems kind of pointless to me.

1 minute ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Those people remembered Lazar, according to Knapp.  

Maybe he was the janitor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MigL said:

So let me get this straight. A race of aliens travels at least 50 LY ( We've been transmitting EMR for 100 yrs, anyone closer than 50 LY could have signaled back ) and when they get here, they hide from us ?
Maybe I'm not a super-intelligent alien, but that seems kind of pointless to me.

Jump into a river in Africa and try to explain yourself to a crocodile.  

If we're discussing a super intelligent life form, then human beings (driven primarily by fear, malice, and greed) would probably be regarded as dangerous and reckless life forms.  Intelligent to a degree, yes, but to a significantly lesser degree than they are.

So ultimately it's possible that we have nothing of value for them, and represent only an unknown risk.  In that case, the optimal strategy would be to just observe.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said:

They didn't.  Those people remembered Lazar, according to Knapp.  

They didn't - we're not talking about Bob Lazar's high school days.  

Thanks for conceding you were incorrect. The government CANNOT erase a person's academic and work history. It obviously exists in many more places than just a couple of files easily identified and accessed by the government. And since all files are not online that would also require the government to somehow have access to various onsite and offsite storage facilities. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, zapatos said:

Thanks for conceding you were incorrect. The government CANNOT erase a person's academic and work history.

We're discussing computer / paper records.  Those would have been easy to erase.

Quote

It obviously exists in many more places than just a couple of files easily identified and accessed by the government. And since all files are not online that would also require the government to somehow have access to various onsite and offsite storage facilities. 

Last time I checked Los Alamos is run by the Department of Energy, i.e., the government, so erasing any records there would be a non issue.  As to MIT and Cal-Tech, it would have been pretty easy for someone to break / hack in and remove what they wanted.  

Edited by Alex_Krycek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly !
Why would I go all the way to Africa to play 'games' with crocodiles ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MigL said:

Exactly !
Why would I go all the way to Africa to play 'games' with crocodiles ?

You wouldn't go there to play games, but you might, as countless zoologists have done, go there to study and document them (preferably from out of sight).  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think any zoologists feel the need to be secretive.

We were driven by fear and greed ( don't know about malice ) 40 000 years ago when we co-existed with Neanderthals.
We have travelled to the moon, and we're still driven by those same qualities.
In a thousand ( or a couple ) when we may be able to travel to other stars, we'll still be driven by those same qualities.

Advancement helps control instincts and emotions; it doesn't get rid of them.

 

One question comes to mind...
If co-workers ( ? ) remembered B Lazar, why didn't the interviewer ask them about him ?
Maybe he was the janitor, or the cafeteria guy, or a financial controller, or the guard, or the ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, MigL said:

I don't think any zoologists feel the need to be secretive.

The point is, they keep a safe distance.  Crocodiles don't have nukes or air to air missiles.

Quote

We were driven by fear and greed ( don't know about malice ) 40 000 years ago when we co-existed with Neanderthals.
We have travelled to the moon, and we're still driven by those same qualities.
In a thousand ( or a couple ) when we may be able to travel to other stars, we'll still be driven by those same qualities.

Advancement helps control instincts and emotions; it doesn't get rid of them.

You're looking at it purely from a human-centric bias.  Yes, that's what drives us - although, not all of us.  It might not be what drives other intelligent beings.  There might come a time when a life form evolves past these animalistic qualities, or they never  possessed them in the first place.  

 

Quote

One question comes to mind...
If co-workers ( ? ) remembered B Lazar, why didn't the interviewer ask them about him ?
Maybe he was the janitor, or the cafeteria guy, or a financial controller, or the guard, or the ...

According to George Knapp there were many. 

As a side note, this interview with retired US Navy pilot Commander David Fravor is quite interesting:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco2s3-0zsQ&t=260s

 

Edited by Alex_Krycek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

If indeed Lazar did work at a top secret military facility such as S-4, it would have been incredibly easy for the government to erase his academic / employment history had they wanted to.  It's ridiculous to suggest that the US government wouldn't be able to accomplish such a trivial feat within days. 

 

Ah yes, the complete absence of evidence just proves how deep the conspiracy goes.

(Blimey. I thought you were joking. You’re serious!? Wow)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Strange said:

Ah yes, the complete absence of evidence just proves how deep the conspiracy goes.

(Blimey. I thought you were joking. You’re serious!? Wow)

Um....Yes...I was being serious.  Those who violate secrecy oaths and disclose government secrets are routinely discredited / smeared / targeted.  What do you propose the normal course of action is?  Awarding a medal?   Surely you're not feigning incredulity regarding this obvious fact.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Strange said:

Ah yes, the complete absence of evidence just proves how deep the conspiracy goes.

(Blimey. I thought you were joking. You’re serious!? Wow)

And, just to be clear, the "wow" is "wow, I will never cease to be amazed at the infinite variety of humanity; not intended as a disparaging comment (which, I guess the downvote suggests).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

Lazar's "credibility" is debatable and subjective.  As to the events which supposedly occurred, (i.e. extraterrestrials visiting Earth and making contact with human beings) I find this hypothesis plausible.  Over billions upon billions of years, with trillions of star systems and trillions of inhabitable planets, at some point a species will arise that could reach Earth.  It's inevitable, in my view, due to the sheer number of inhabitable planets out there.  

The topic of the discussion is element 115, not whether we've been visited by aliens. So this suggests that Lazar's input is irrelevant.

8 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said:

If indeed Lazar did work at a top secret military facility such as S-4, it would have been incredibly easy for the government to erase his academic / employment history had they wanted to.  It's ridiculous to suggest that the US government wouldn't be able to accomplish such a trivial feat within days. 

 

!

Moderator Note

Irrelevant to the discussion (as I mention above) and basically using the lack of evidence to confirm that there is a conspiracy, because all the evidence has been erased. The antithesis of scientific discussion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.