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Duda Jarek

Covid-19 vaccines thread

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1 hour ago, Doctor doodler said:

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We would prefer you posted text rather than unnecessary images likes. For accessibility reasons, if nothing. 

Also you should provide a source for information like this

 

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On 5/18/2020 at 11:47 PM, CharonY said:

The Moderna vaccine mentioned earlier is almost done with phase I but preliminary results already indicate that some participants developed antibodies. This bodes well for the efficacy test.

The paper is out now (well yesterday): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31208-3/fulltext

 

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It is all a little confusing. We may or may not  develop a vaccine. There seems to be differences of opinions as to  whether or not it is the virus that kills, or it is the underlying conditions that kill.. Hmm, I had angina, they placed three stints in me, and the plan was to send me home that day, but I rapidly developed a cough while in the recovery phase of the procedure. I don’t know why I developed the cough, but the result was they did not send me home. Instead they admitted me and presumably treated the cough. I’m glad they did I got better. 

This may not seem related but I wonder had they sent me home and had I died what exactly would have been the reason written on my death certificate? This was in early November so, I highly doubt coved 19. Even so, I don’t know what they would have written but I am sure they would have had to write something. However, they admitted me and treated me until I was well enough to go home.

Maybe it has effected my view? I don’t want to read that anyone has died from coved 19, but if I have to read it I would rather read that the patient was  receiving treatment in a hospital were they could deal with underlying conditions. I don’t want to read that the patient was treated then released, then died days later of an underlying condition. Which, I have read was initially generally being recorded, until someone said no, count the virus as the cause. Apparently for reasons I don’t understand the difference is of importance.

It should be clear by now. Yes we need a  vaccine, but we also need to get a whole lot better at dealing with underlying conditions, and damn the monetary cost of either.

Honestly though, after spending the last six months trying not to die, for my life, I cannot understand why anyone likely to get the virus because of  susceptibility would volunteer to test the vaccine.

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44 minutes ago, jajrussel said:

It should be clear by now. Yes we need a  vaccine, but we also need to get a whole lot better at dealing with underlying conditions, and damn the monetary cost of either.

What should be clear by now is, money makes very little difference to the value of life.

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2 hours ago, jajrussel said:

There seems to be differences of opinions as to  whether or not it is the virus that kills, or it is the underlying conditions that kill..

That is more of a fundamental perhaps even philosophical question. Does HIV kill you by destroying your immune system or is it the inability to handle infections that kill you. Is a virus killing you or just the way your body deals with the infection. The dangerous thing is from that viewpoint folks assume that without (known) underlying conditions folks are safe. That, however is not the case. Younger folks usually have less complications, but we do not know the reasons. There are otherwise healthy young folks who end up in ICUs, but the rate is far lower. 

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19 hours ago, dimreepr said:

What should be clear by now is, money makes very little difference to the value of life.

A failing of the Economic System, or of Humanity?

17 hours ago, CharonY said:

That is more of a fundamental perhaps even philosophical question. Does HIV kill you by destroying your immune system or is it the inability to handle infections that kill you. Is a virus killing you or just the way your body deals with the infection. The dangerous thing is from that viewpoint folks assume that without (known) underlying conditions folks are safe. That, however is not the case. Younger folks usually have less complications, but we do not know the reasons. There are otherwise healthy young folks who end up in ICUs, but the rate is far lower. 

There used to be a chant that was made that went “No child left behind.” One would think that to accept that philosophy a human being might recognize that you don’t just hand out t-shirts then assume that the child is not starving. It is dangerous to ignore any possibility that could contribute to a dangerous state.

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In TamilNadu, Dr.MGR Medical University has developed a vaccine candidate against SARS-COV-2 through 'reverse vaccinology' the institutions vice -chancellor Sudha Seshayyan. It was a three weeks research.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2020 at 10:37 AM, Prasanna P said:

In TamilNadu, Dr.MGR Medical University has developed a vaccine candidate against SARS-COV-2 through 'reverse vaccinology' the institutions vice -chancellor Sudha Seshayyan. It was a three weeks research.

The potential vaccine candidate reported on April 23 in several articles?

if I manage to get the link right this being one of them?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/coronavirus-mgr-medical-university-develops-vaccine-candidate/article31410701.ece

Edited by jajrussel

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11 minutes ago, jajrussel said:

The potential vaccine candidate reported on April 23 in several articles?

if I manage to get the link right this being one of them?

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/coronavirus-mgr-medical-university-develops-vaccine-candidate/article31410701.ece

This is a new one. The once referenced earlier are already in or past Phase I trials, respectively.

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Here is a link to a somewhat lengthy report put out on March 17. I know that there are a lot of brilliant people in the world who are capable of producing such a report in a very short order, but I have my own reasons for wondering if this  novel virus  isn’t so novel it’s little things like certain attentions paid to detail, and one annoying detail listed on my chart that I couldn’t seem to get anyone to pay attention to when I would ask why the reference was there. Specifically a reference linking me to Diabetes Mellitus on my chart which was news to me. Now the reference is gone, but I should have a hard copy somewhere. It was almost like some were looking for something, and expecting to find it. I think of it as somewhat of a novel mystery. Not a conspiracy. 

It is a pdf link...

https://www.tnmgrmu.ac.in/images/2020/doe/COVID19_Report_24March2020.pdf

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8 hours ago, jajrussel said:

know that there are a lot of brilliant people in the world who are capable of producing such a report in a very short order, but I have my own reasons for wondering if this  novel virus  isn’t so novel it’s little things like certain attentions paid to detail, and one annoying detail listed on my chart that I couldn’t seem to get anyone to pay attention to when I would ask why the reference was there.

Not sure what you mean. Obviously coronaviruses or respiratory virus diseases in general are not something fundamentally new. There is a lot of data from the SARS and MERS outbreaks specifically so many studies are able to compare and contrast new findings with what is already known. One of the things that are not certain yet are which pre-existing conditions are truly mechanistically linked to worse outcomes. A naive model would simply look at outcomes and then look at the variables that are most strongly associated with negative outcomes. But then it is not clear whether it is a factor of the virus specifically (e.g. a molecular interaction) or just a general situation that make treatments more difficult. For example, there are reports that ventilators could more frequently result in lung injury in obese patients. So while the virus might now interact directly with factors related to obesity, obese patients may have worse outcomes when they need to be ventilated.

Diabetic patients generally have issues with the immune system. High glucose levels often result in inflammatory responses (adipocytes and macrophages start producing pro-inflammatory molecules). One effect is further reduction of pancreatic cells due to the inflammation, but the other is that it could make cytokine storms more easily to happen. That again is not unique to COVID-19, but something that is known from influenza. 

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

Phase III: 2

Quote

A vaccine in development by the British-Swedish company AstraZeneca and the University of Oxford is based on a chimpanzee adenovirus called ChAdOx1.

Quote

The Murdoch Children’s Research Institute in Australia is conducting a Phase III trial,

Phase II: 8 e.g. Moderna to start  Phase III in July,

Phase I: 10

Preclinical: 125+

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From https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html , third vaccine has entered phase III:

Quote

After promising early testing, the state-owned Chinese company Sinopharm announced in June that it would be moving into Phase III trials. They reached an agreement with the United Arab Emirates to start testing the efficacy of an inactivated virus vaccine in the Gulf state.

 

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There was added "approved" on this vaccine tracker ... for military use, also in phase II:

Quote

The Chinese company CanSino Biologics developed a vaccine based on an adenovirus called Ad5, in partnership with the Institute of Biology at the country’s Academy of Military Medical Sciences. In May, they published promising results from a Phase I safety trial. Unpublished data from Phase II trials demonstrated the vaccine produced a strong immune response, leading the Chinese military to approve it on June 25 for a year as a “specially needed drug.” CanSino would not say whether vaccination would be mandatory or optional for soldiers.

 

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Over a million doses of Oxford/AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine possible by September, says researcher

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-oxford-vaccine-res/over-a-million-doses-of-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-possible-by-september-researcher-idUSKCN24L1TW

 

Also two more Phase III (to 6 + 1 approved) in https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html
 

Quote

 

Moderna develops vaccines based on messenger RNA (mRNA) to produce viral proteins in the body. They have yet to bring one to the market. In March, the company put the first Covid-19 vaccine into human trials, in partnership with the National Institutes of Health. The trials yielded promising results, after which Moderna and N.I.H. researchers carried out a Phase II study before launching a Phase III trial on July 27. The final trial will enroll 30,000 healthy people at about 89 sites around the United States. The government has bankrolled Moderna’s efforts with nearly $1 billion in support.

 

The German company BioNTech has entered into collaborations with Pfizer, based in New York, and the Chinese drug maker Fosun Pharma to develop their mRNA vaccine. In July, they posted preliminary results from their Phase I/II trials in the United States and Germany. They found that the volunteers produced antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, as well as immune cells called T cells that respond to the virus. Some volunteers experienced moderate side effects such as sleep disturbances and sore arms. On July 27, they announced the launch of a Phase II/III trial with 30,000 volunteers in the United States and other countries including Argentina, Brazil, and Germany.

The Trump administration awarded a $1.9 billion contract for 100 million doses to be delivered by December and the option to acquire 500 million more doses. If approved, Pfizer said they expect to manufacture over 1.3 billion doses of their vaccine worldwide by the end of 2021.

 

 

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53735718

Coronavirus: Putin says vaccine has been approved for use

Two more Stage III (8, +1 "approved") in https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

Quote

The Gamaleya Research Institute, part of Russia’s Ministry of Health, launched a Phase I trial in June of a vaccine they call Gam-Covid-Vac Lyo. It is a combination of two adenoviruses, Ad5 and Ad26, both engineered with a coronavirus gene. In July, the chair of the upper house of Russia’s Parliament announced the country might start vaccine production by the end of the year. On Aug. 11, President Vladimir V. Putin announced that a Russian health care regulator had approved the vaccine, despite the lack of Phase III testing.

Quote

The Chinese company CanSino Biologics developed a vaccine based on an adenovirus called Ad5, in partnership with the Institute of Biology at the country’s Academy of Military Medical Sciences. In May, they published promising results from a Phase I safety trial, and in July they reported that their Phase II trials demonstrated the vaccine produced a strong immune response. In an unprecedented move, the Chinese military approved the vaccine on June 25 for a year as a “specially needed drug.” CanSino would not say whether vaccination would be mandatory or optional for soldiers. On August 9, the Saudi health ministry announced that CanSino Biologics would run a Phase III trial in Saudi Arabia. The company is in negotiations with other countries for more trials.

 

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He's basically skipping Phase 3 of the clinical trial and using ht population as guinea pigs instead

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Also China and probably others ... and minimizing e.g. expected number of casualties, this might be a reasonable behavior.

Personally, if having opportunity to participate in such test, if only not having some nasty side effects, I don't think if I would have any doubts.

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9 minutes ago, Duda Jarek said:

Also China and probably others .

Actually basically all are going through the phases (but accelerated) and at least AFAIK I have not seen anyone beside Russia registering a vaccine before phase 3 data have been published. In fact, even the Phase  1 and 2 data has not been published, which is especially worrying as they did a combined Phase 1 and 2 trial with only 38 volunteers. That is roughly the scope of Phase 1 from virtually all other developers. They now have declared that they want to start Phase 3, but again with much fewer folks than the other trials. 

As a whole, I would not put a lot of money into this particular vaccine (after all, they manufacturer apparently did not, either). 

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... and approval for military use in China:

Quote

The Chinese company CanSino Biologics developed a vaccine based on an adenovirus called Ad5, in partnership with the Institute of Biology at the country’s Academy of Military Medical Sciences. In May, they published promising results from a Phase I safety trial. Unpublished data from Phase II trials demonstrated the vaccine produced a strong immune response, leading the Chinese military to approve it on June 25 for a year as a “specially needed drug.” CanSino would not say whether vaccination would be mandatory or optional for soldiers.

 

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Perhaps, but not for market. It is special approval track (from what I understand) for emergency military use with a time limitation.

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On 8/11/2020 at 10:28 PM, Duda Jarek said:
Quote

The Gamaleya Research Institute, part of Russia’s Ministry of Health, launched a Phase I trial in June of a vaccine they call Gam-Covid-Vac Lyo. It is a combination of two adenoviruses, Ad5 and Ad26, both engineered with a coronavirus gene. In July, the chair of the upper house of Russia’s Parliament announced the country might start vaccine production by the end of the year. On Aug. 11, President Vladimir V. Putin announced that a Russian health care regulator had approved the vaccine, despite the lack of Phase III testing.

 

is it actually a good idea to skip phase III? I saw on some news that his daughter already tried this vaccine

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