Please help settle a debate about Immunity

[Jeff9000]

Hello scientists.

Was wondering if anyone could chime in on a debate I’m having with my wife. My daighter has been unwell with a cough/flu virus for several days. One morning I gave her a really small glass of cola to drink, about 20ml. It was room temperature, about 8-12oC. Could this have had any major effect on prolonging her cough/flu virus? I’m thinking that it wont have had virtually noneffect at all, let alone a major one. Obviously everything has ‘some’ effect but with regards to altering viral systematic processes within the body, I wouldn’t have thought a tiny drop of cola would make hardly any difference to her condition. Any input and insight is appreciated on this, I’m getting quite a lot of flack so just wondering if I actually deserve it or not. Also yes I’m aware cola is bad for kids in general, it was just a little treat that one time and she doesn’t get to drink it often. 

Cheers. Jeff

[iNow]

No. It’s sugar water

[zapatos]

No. There would be more sugar and water in an orange than what you gave her. Temperature would have zero effect. 

Excess cola might be considered bad. The 20ml you gave your daughter was a nice treat that probably made her feel better, if only for a moment.

Nothing  to feel bad about.

[mistermack]

A recent post by Sensei in another thread might be relevant. The sugar might do some good. Especially if the daughter was a mouse : 

 

"Feeding mice helps them to fight viral infection, whereas starvation is a better strategy against bacterial infection — lending support to the proverb 'feed a cold, starve a fever'.

Ruslan Medzhitov and his colleagues at Yale University School of Medicine in New Haven, Connecticut, studied the effects of feeding on mice that were infected with either the bacterium Listeria monocytogenes or an influenza virus. Bacterium-infected mice that were deprived of food stayed alive, whereas well-fed animals died. By contrast, almost all mice with flu died when they were starved, but most survived when they were fed. During bacterial inflammation, glucose from food inhibited a metabolic process that protects brain tissue from damage, whereas the sugar protected the brain during viral inflammation."

https://www.nature.com/articles/537283c

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/120340-antibiotic-resistance-suggested-tactics/?do=findComment&comment=1120726   

 

7 hours ago, zapatos said:

No. There would be more sugar and water in an orange than what you gave her.

Talking academically, the sugars in an orange would be far better for her, than the high-fructose corn syrup in a cola. A one-off wouldn't make any difference, but a repetitive diet of cola is certainly not on a par with oranges. There's a whole list of reasons why we shouldn't be eating high-fructose corn syrup. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by mistermack

[Jeff9000]

Thanks for the responses guys, it’s much appreciated. For the record she’s really more concerned about the temperature than the fact it was cola, not to say that detail is irrelevant. Somebody states above that the temperature is irrelevant, I’m think there might be some impact to drinking really cold drinks when unwell, if you drink a certain quantity, but I’m more focussing on the fact that it was just a small amount and only the once, also it wasn’t like fridge or even freezer cold, but just slightly cold room temperature. My thoughts are that the impact of something so minscule would have virtually no effect at all, my wife is blaming me for our daughter still being unwell the following day, which I believe is down to dozens (if not quadrillions) of variable factors, not me giving her a drab of room temp cola.

Thanks again to all, heavily appreciating these responses!

[StringJunky]

 

 

1 hour ago, mistermack said:

A recent post by Sensei in another thread might be relevant. The sugar might do some good. Especially if the daughter was a mouse : 

 

"Feeding mice helps them to fight viral infection, whereas starvation is a better strategy against bacterial infection — lending support to the proverb 'feed a cold, starve a fever'.

Ruslan Medzhitov and his colleagues at Yale University School of Medicine in New Haven, Connecticut, studied the effects of feeding on mice that were infected with either the bacterium Listeria monocytogenes or an influenza virus. Bacterium-infected mice that were deprived of food stayed alive, whereas well-fed animals died. By contrast, almost all mice with flu died when they were starved, but most survived when they were fed. During bacterial inflammation, glucose from food inhibited a metabolic process that protects brain tissue from damage, whereas the sugar protected the brain during viral inflammation."

https://www.nature.com/articles/537283c

https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/120340-antibiotic-resistance-suggested-tactics/?do=findComment&comment=1120726   

 

Talking academically, the sugars in an orange would be far better for her, than the high-fructose corn syrup in a cola. A one-off wouldn't make any difference, but a repetitive diet of cola is certainly not on a par with oranges. There's a whole list of reasons why we shouldn't be eating high-fructose corn syrup. 

Fructose in oranges is no different to fructose in high-fructose corn syrup.

Edited October 24, 2019 by StringJunky

[mistermack]

The temperature of the drink would be equally unimportant, I would have thought. (maybe a nursing forum could tell you more). 

You don't say if the patient had a raised temperature, but I don't think that makes an awful lot of difference. 

Your daughter is constantly perspiring, to lose heat, just like everyone else. If you drink a cold drink, the most that would happen, would be that you might perspire slightly less for a short time, as you need to lose less heat for a short time. 

[iNow]

35 minutes ago, Jeff9000 said:

Somebody states above that the temperature is irrelevant

Because it is. Unless you poured hot lava or liquid nitrogen down her throat, the temp is irrelevant and would not affect her core temperature, even if she was facing issues with having a fever.

To be blunt, this is a really silly question akin to asking if all the fish in the worlds oceans will die if we accidentally pee into it once on the coast of Florida. There is no impact. There isn't even a mechanism by which an impact would occur.

A minuscule amount of lukewarm sugary brown water won't affect your childs cold or flu in any way.

You and your wife should move on and start arguing about more important things instead.

[Sensei]

20 mL of Coca-Cola (we don't know which one, I assume "Original" i.e. with sugar), with ~10% wt has ~2 grams of sugar. Single small tea spoon carry 5 grams of sugar..

i.e. single cup of sweet tea has more sugar than that Coca-Cola..

 

[studiot]

I didn't know that all you americans had flat cola.
It is definitely a fizzy drink in the UK.

So there is more in it than just sugar, fruit acid and water.

However has anyone considered how small 20mL is?
Our standard can is 330mL.
So just a sip.

But Jeff you didn't say if your daughter is asthmatic or not.
Did the cola make her cough immediately worse or did the fizz affect her nose?

All in all I would have thought that the most effect was a patient boost from TLC by a loving parent.

Edited October 24, 2019 by studiot

[iNow]

19 minutes ago, studiot said:

I didn't know that all you americans had flat cola.
It is definitely a fizzy drink in the UK.

Same here. I just found the bubbles to also be irrelevant given the scales involved (as you rightly mention in your post, too).

[StringJunky]

35 minutes ago, iNow said:

Because it is. Unless you poured hot lava or liquid nitrogen down her throat, the temp is irrelevant and would not affect her core temperature, even if she was facing issues with having a fever.

To be blunt, this is a really silly question akin to asking if all the fish in the worlds oceans will die if we accidentally pee into it once on the coast of Florida. There is no impact. There isn't even a mechanism by which an impact would occur.

A minuscule amount of lukewarm sugary brown water won't affect your childs cold or flu in any way.

You and your wife should move on and start arguing about more important things instead.

I think the question illustrates the consequences on reasoning of being generally brought up in a science-free environment. No snarkiness intended.

[iNow]

Indeed, and those same consequences are being seen and felt globally right now with our politics and failure to respond to clearly detrimental issues, but that's OT

[koti]

14 hours ago, Jeff9000 said:

Hello scientists.

Was wondering if anyone could chime in on a debate I’m having with my wife. My daighter has been unwell with a cough/flu virus for several days. One morning I gave her a really small glass of cola to drink, about 20ml. It was room temperature, about 8-12oC. Could this have had any major effect on prolonging her cough/flu virus? I’m thinking that it wont have had virtually noneffect at all, let alone a major one. Obviously everything has ‘some’ effect but with regards to altering viral systematic processes within the body, I wouldn’t have thought a tiny drop of cola would make hardly any difference to her condition. Any input and insight is appreciated on this, I’m getting quite a lot of flack so just wondering if I actually deserve it or not. Also yes I’m aware cola is bad for kids in general, it was just a little treat that one time and she doesn’t get to drink it often. 

Cheers. Jeff

Couple things; sparkling drinks like coke can have itritating effect on your throat. Notice how youre avoiding anything with gass when youre throat is killing you. Secondly, 20ml of coke will have no effect sugar wise on anyone, I presume your daughter weighs more than 5-6kg’s. Thirdly, parents tend to blame various things which are happening to their child on no causal corelations, like mothers with children with autism blame it on vaccines, or a more sane example from my own life - I took my 3,5 year old for swimming (which I actually didnt because the pool was closed but my wife didnt know about it) and she blamed his ear infection on the swimming. I assure you, she could have bet anything that the cause of the infection was the swimming.

Lastely, I say skip on the sugar drinks all together, we managed to have a 3,5 year old who doesnt even like coke, he preffers water or fruit. Also let your Missus nurture your kid even to the extreme as mothers tend to have that embeded very deeply into their minds and you - do your thing as a father. 

Edited October 24, 2019 by koti

[CharonY]

16 hours ago, Jeff9000 said:

Hello scientists.

I would like to add that folks here are not medical experts nor do we provide medical advice. What you see in this thread are  speculations by laypersons, based on reasonable assumptions (such as sugar content). I.e. one should never treat things found on the internet as medical advice without consulting a medical practitioner. Even a medical researcher generally can only speak to a very narrow aspect relating to their expertise, and one has to be careful to interpret things being said in that context.

It should also be noted that the cited study above is likely of no relevance. The paper discusses specific mechanisms relevant for infections affecting the brain (i.e. breaching the blood-brain barrier) which is quite a different and far more serious issue.

[mistermack]

4 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Fructose in oranges is no different to fructose in high-fructose corn syrup.

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've heard, it's definitely different. It's a while since I read about it, but from memory, the fructose in HFCS is "free" sugar, or not "bound" and the difference means a lot. I first heard about it in a very good documentary, made by some very well qualified food scientists, and they were unequivocal that HFCS is extremely bad and best avoided. It's even worse than table sugar. 

This vid is saying much the same, but the original documentary on the BBC (I think) was extremely damning. 

There's a huge amount online about how bad HFCS is, so there's lots to choose from. Here's another : 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oHmZOoxk2s

If it's too much of a derail, it might be worth it's own thread.

[StringJunky]

40 minutes ago, mistermack said:

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've heard, it's definitely different. It's a while since I read about it, but from memory, the fructose in HFCS is "free" sugar, or not "bound" and the difference means a lot. I first heard about it in a very good documentary, made by some very well qualified food scientists, and they were unequivocal that HFCS is extremely bad and best avoided. It's even worse than table sugar. 

This vid is saying much the same, but the original documentary on the BBC (I think) was extremely damning. 

There's a huge amount online about how bad HFCS is, so there's lots to choose from. Here's another : 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oHmZOoxk2s

If it's too much of a derail, it might be worth it's own thread.

I won't argue with that as HFCS is refined.

[koti]

52 minutes ago, mistermack said:

I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've heard, it's definitely different. It's a while since I read about it, but from memory, the fructose in HFCS is "free" sugar, or not "bound" and the difference means a lot. I first heard about it in a very good documentary, made by some very well qualified food scientists, and they were unequivocal that HFCS is extremely bad and best avoided. It's even worse than table sugar. 

This vid is saying much the same, but the original documentary on the BBC (I think) was extremely damning. 

 

I'm far from being an expert on anything biology but I don't know man...not more than 30 seconds into the clip and he managed to mention Glyphosate, Roundup and GMO in one sentence. Thats kind of a red light for me. 

[Jeff9000]

iNow - "akin to asking if all the fish in the world's oceans will die if we accidentally pee into it once on the coast of Florida" is exactly the kind of response that I was hoping to receive, much obliged! For the record I am very aware of how silly my inquiry is, but had I phrased it in the manner of something like 'my wife is an idiot and actually believes that...', do you really think I'd be getting the responses that I did?

I made this post to back up my claim that me giving our daughter a tiny glass of cola did not prolong her illness in any way, not for myself (I know perfectly well it didn't), but for my wife. I'm not sure what else we should be arguing about, but feel free to let me know and I might just oblige.

StringJunky - I studied biochemistry at university, so not completely without any science background. Apparently this still isn't enough for my wife to take my assertions seriously.

studiot - She is not asthmatic and the cola did not make her cough immediately worse, or affect her nose. I was mostly inquiring to prove that drinking a slightly cold drink wouldn't have affected her condition, but a lot of people seem to be more focussed on the drink being fizzy cola, which is my fault for not phrasing my original post better

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, Jeff9000 said:

iNow - "akin to asking if all the fish in the world's oceans will die if we accidentally pee into it once on the coast of Florida" is exactly the kind of response that I was hoping to receive, much obliged! For the record I am very aware of how silly my inquiry is, but had I phrased it in the manner of something like 'my wife is an idiot and actually believes that...', do you really think I'd be getting the responses that I did?

I made this post to back up my claim that me giving our daughter a tiny glass of cola did not prolong her illness in any way, not for myself (I know perfectly well it didn't), but for my wife. I'm not sure what else we should be arguing about, but feel free to let me know and I might just oblige.

StringJunky - I studied biochemistry at university, so not completely without any science background. Apparently this still isn't enough for my wife to take my assertions seriously.

studiot - She is not asthmatic and the cola did not make her cough immediately worse, or affect her nose. I was mostly inquiring to prove that drinking a slightly cold drink wouldn't have affected her condition, but a lot of people seem to be more focussed on the drink being fizzy cola, which is my fault for not phrasing my original post better

Wow! Your wife is hardcore.  

Edited October 24, 2019 by StringJunky

[Jeff9000]

24 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Wow! Your wife is hardcore.  

Haha, tru dat!

[mistermack]

3 hours ago, koti said:

I'm far from being an expert on anything biology but I don't know man...not more than 30 seconds into the clip and he managed to mention Glyphosate, Roundup and GMO in one sentence. Thats kind of a red light for me. 

That's a fair comment. I just did a quick youtube search to see if they had the original documentary that I saw on tv. 

Having said that, I like roundup, I use it regularly on my vegetable garden. BUT, I use it for killing weeds before I plant my veg. I wouldn't dream of using it straight onto a food plant, and genetically modifying the plants so that you can spray more of it on them? No way, that's not going into my body. It's great for killing weeds, but I'm not going to risk eating stuff that's been sprayed wi th it. 

This is a bit more mainstream science, it's from the University of California TV, by a professor of pediatrics, and he's saying much the same thing.     

 

 

 

[hypervalent_iodine]

!

Moderator Note

mistermack, kindly stop dragging this off topic. I would suggest that you open a separate thread if you wish to keep discussing the specifics of sugar and HFCS.