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fredreload

Trying to tackle the concept of consciousness

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Well, when we think about consciousness, we think of animals and bugs. Brain as big as a whale's brain or as small as an ant. But does the number of neurons matter for consciousness or is consciousness more of an on off switch determined by a single cell? The thing is, when the consciousness region of the brain, specific to that of the brain stem. If that region is bigger, people seem to have a higher level of cognition compare to animals or insects with a smaller brain. And then you would poke around that consciousness region of the brain trying to figure out if there is an on off switch, but then you realized that the entire region is consciousness itself. That it is one entity contained and shifting in this region(brain stem). Simply put, we got left and right brain, if you destroy the right brain, left brain would hold the consciousness, similarly if you destroy the left brain, right brain would hold the consciousness(strictly for brain stem, if you destroy left and right brain stem there would be no consciousness). Then the only thing to conclude is that consciousness is a stream similar to that of water or current. So how does one stream of consciousness differ from another stream of consciousness as it differs from person to person?

Some guesses:

1. How fast the current flows. (if it emanates(that region of brain stem) 50 times per second vs 1 time per second)

2. The timing of the current. (if it starts at noon or if it starts at night, I don't think this is the case, only in theory)

3. The synaptic delays between the neurons. (If it delays 25ns to 50ns between the synapses to complete a round trip within the brain, or it stops, but rest assured it isn't moving at the speed of light) Alright, you got me, this is pretty much similar to point 1. But my emphasis is, if you change a single synapse to 100ns, does that make you a different person?

 

Edited by fredreload

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On 9/3/2019 at 6:27 PM, fredreload said:

But does the number of neurons matter for consciousness or is consciousness more of an on off switch determined by a single cell?

Of course the number of neurons matter. You can't build a complex structure with one neuron, not even with two...

On 9/3/2019 at 6:27 PM, fredreload said:

And then you would poke around that consciousness region of the brain trying to figure out if there is an on off switch, but then you realized that the entire region is consciousness itself.

You really did? Or did you read some popularising books about neurology. No, of course not, you looked a few youtubies. 

On 9/3/2019 at 6:27 PM, fredreload said:

Simply put, we got left and right brain, if you destroy the right brain, left brain would hold the consciousness, similarly if you destroy the left brain, right brain would hold the consciousness(strictly for brain stem, if you destroy left and right brain stem there would be no consciousness).

I assume too simple. Do you have references for this? I heard of a case of a girl who had only one brain hemisphere at birth, and who lived pretty normally with that. But I never heard of somebody loosing one hemisphere completely. And I have no idea why you use 'the consciousness' to describe what happens. Might it not be that such a person a) simply dies; b) his consciousness is seriously impaired; c) has completely changed character, cannot identify himself as the person he was before, etc. So how do you think you can identify what 'the consciousness' of a person is?

On 9/3/2019 at 6:27 PM, fredreload said:

Then the only thing to conclude is that consciousness is a stream similar to that of water or current.

First, given that your premise, as shown in my comment just above, is not substantiated at all, there is no ground to think this. And 'the only thing to conclude' can only be said if you have proven that there really is no other possibility. You are far, very far away from that.

On 9/3/2019 at 6:27 PM, fredreload said:

So how does one stream of consciousness differ from another stream of consciousness as it differs from person to person?

Some guesses:

1. How fast the current flows. (if it emanates(that region of brain stem) 50 times per second vs 1 time per second)

2. The timing of the current. (if it starts at noon or if it starts at night, I don't think this is the case, only in theory)

So first you make a (wrong) extreme abstraction from what happens in the brain, and because you think in terms of that abstraction, you are left with only a few possible parameters that might makeup the difference between 'the consciousnesses' of two different persons?

On 9/3/2019 at 6:27 PM, fredreload said:

3. The synaptic delays between the neurons. (If it delays 25ns to 50ns between the synapses to complete a round trip within the brain, or it stops, but rest assured it isn't moving at the speed of light) Alright, you got me, this is pretty much similar to point 1. But my emphasis is, if you change a single synapse to 100ns, does that make you a different person?

If you change a bolt in your car, do you have a different car? Two bolts? 200  bolts, the motor, the chassis, the wheels, and the instrument panel?

I suggest you learn some thinking (philosophy, logic, and argumentation), and base your speculations at least on what we already know in established science about the brain. Speculation that is inconsistent with established science is of no value at all.

 

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2 hours ago, Eise said:

Of course the number of neurons matter. You can't build a complex structure with one neuron, not even with two...

You really did? Or did you read some popularising books about neurology. No, of course not, you looked a few youtubies. 

I assume too simple. Do you have references for this? I heard of a case of a girl who had only one brain hemisphere at birth, and who lived pretty normally with that. But I never heard of somebody loosing one hemisphere completely. And I have no idea why you use 'the consciousness' to describe what happens. Might it not be that such a person a) simply dies; b) his consciousness is seriously impaired; c) has completely changed character, cannot identify himself as the person he was before, etc. So how do you think you can identify what 'the consciousness' of a person is?

First, given that your premise, as shown in my comment just above, is not substantiated at all, there is no ground to think this. And 'the only thing to conclude' can only be said if you have proven that there really is no other possibility. You are far, very far away from that.

So first you make a (wrong) extreme abstraction from what happens in the brain, and because you think in terms of that abstraction, you are left with only a few possible parameters that might makeup the difference between 'the consciousnesses' of two different persons?

If you change a bolt in your car, do you have a different car? Two bolts? 200  bolts, the motor, the chassis, the wheels, and the instrument panel?

I suggest you learn some thinking (philosophy, logic, and argumentation), and base your speculations at least on what we already know in established science about the brain. Speculation that is inconsistent with established science is of no value at all.

 

Thanks for taking an interest in my post. I wasn't in the best of mind when I wrote it. Consciousness contribute to one if not two regions of the brain such as hypothalamus(we got two hypothalamus) or the pons in the brain stem. Since consciousness works like analogue you would think it is amplified over a medium, same goes for pain, pleasure, and all the other senses.

So, is the "difference" in consciousness attributed to the shape of the electromagnetic field of the consciousness region. Or the difference arise from the time delay exhibit within this structure.

Well the current moves very fast that it feels almost like an electric field in a sense, but if you differentiate the difference in consciousness(of two people) based on a field, well there is ought be some overlap region for the fields (sphere head or cube head). And this overlap region should attribute to the similarity between two consciousnesses, but even then you can't quite read another person's brain can you? Let you have a sphere head to read a cube head's brain or a cube head reading a sphere head's brain. So the difference in consciousness must be attributed to something else completely.

If you say the frequency of the brain pulse once every second or two times every second, there is still overlap in the way this pulse occurs. So beats me, I am yet to figure out an answer. Can't two people's brain have the same frequency or pulse? There might, I wouldn't know. But then that wouldn't be two different people, would it?

Edited by fredreload

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