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Externet

Interest in Greenland...

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Posted (edited)

Hello all.

Politics is not something I comment;  but found interesting that U.S. already bought from Denmark the Virgin islands not too far ago, in 1917 and paid 25 million in gold.  With such antecedent, all the noise generated is showing some historical ignorance...

If it is a government thing or a presidential personal pursuit, I do not know.

Edited by Externet

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10 minutes ago, Externet said:

Hello all.

Politics is not something I comment;  but found interesting that U.S. already bought from Denmark the Virgin islands not too far ago, in 1917 and paid 25 million in gold.  With such antecedent, all the noise generated is showing some historical ignorance...

If it is a government thing or a presidential personal pursuit, I do not know.

Denmark was facing the prospect of being annexed by Germany at the start of the Great War. The Americans were most likely going to occupy the Danish West Indies anyway, to keep it from the Germans. There was definitely some coercion going on, with plenty of rocks and hard places for the Danish to fall between. Few in the Danish West Indies wanted to be US citizens, given the predominantly black population and the US humanitarian stance at the beginning of the 20th century. 

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Thanks.  But the U.S. efforts to purchase the islands started by 1867; well before Germany posed a factor.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Externet said:

Thanks.  But the U.S. efforts to purchase the islands started by 1867; well before Germany posed a factor.

Um.

You mean literally 3 years after (what would soon become) Germany declared war for control of the duchies of Schleswig and Holstein - and won?

Edited by uncool

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18 minutes ago, Externet said:

Thanks.  But the U.S. efforts to purchase the islands started by 1867; well before Germany posed a factor.

Doesn't it make a difference that Denmark was actively trying to sell the Danish West Indies at the time, and the US wasn't the only interested buyer? I think that's what probably causing the furor over Trump's interest. Denmark and Greenland haven't been offering to sell, and we're at a point in our civilization where empire-building is seen as overly hostile and unnecessary. 

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Beside the fact that Greenland is semi-autonomous which, I presume, would make the legal situation quite difficult, the sale of the Virgin Islands was part of the overall imperialist strategies of the 19th/20th century, which are (at least in the overt form) declining from the second half of the 20th century. 

While negotiations started in the latter half of the 19th century, various negotiations negotiations ultimately failed, despite the fact that the main interest for the US was imperialist expansion, whereas on the Danish side, decline in the same (as well as increasing cost) were a factor. The sale ultimately happened due to militarist threats from the US. Drawing parallel to current political situations are, tenuous at best (hopefully). 

Because it is either that or things have gone really insane.

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Truman wanted to buy Greenland, too. My gut on this one is Trump wants to give climate hating moguls access to the resources for mining (rare earths etc) and drilling (oil) now that the ice above it melting. It’s similar to how he’s opened up more public lands and national parks here in the US for resource exploitation than any president ever. 

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44 minutes ago, iNow said:

Truman wanted to buy Greenland, too. My gut on this one is Trump wants to give climate hating moguls access to the resources for mining (rare earths etc) and drilling (oil) now that the ice above it melting. It’s similar to how he’s opened up more public lands and national parks here in the US for resource exploitation than any president ever. 

I don't think there is a prospect of large areas being ice free in the next few decades although the US President clearly supports the industries and activities that would make it happen sooner. Perhaps by the US "owning" Greenland, ongoing measurements of ice sheet loss could be heavily restricted?

This coveting of Greenland by President Trump makes no real sense to me - or I expect, to Greenlanders and Danes. I expect it is a surprise and puzzle to Americans as well.

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30 minutes ago, Ken Fabian said:

I don't think there is a prospect of large areas being ice free in the next few decades

It’s mostly at the edges, but still significant (and I tend to agree with your broader points). 

 

Number-of-melt-days-on-the-Greenland-ice 

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1 hour ago, Ken Fabian said:

I don't think there is a prospect of large areas being ice free in the next few decades although the US President clearly supports the industries and activities that would make it happen sooner. Perhaps by the US "owning" Greenland, ongoing measurements of ice sheet loss could be heavily restricted?

This coveting of Greenland by President Trump makes no real sense to me - or I expect, to Greenlanders and Danes. I expect it is a surprise and puzzle to Americans as well.

 

1 hour ago, Ken Fabian said:

I don't think there is a prospect of large areas being ice free in the next few decades although the US President clearly supports the industries and activities that would make it happen sooner. Perhaps by the US "owning" Greenland, ongoing measurements of ice sheet loss could be heavily restricted?

This coveting of Greenland by President Trump makes no real sense to me - or I expect, to Greenlanders and Danes. I expect it is a surprise and puzzle to Americans as well.

LOL no...

"Go ice melt go! Look how smart I was"? Yes.

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Greenland has been moving towards independence .

And both Russia and China have increased their Arctic 'presence'.
This may just be a way to check their moves in the area.

I wonder...
If D Trump does buy Greenland, will the Danes pay for it ?
( like Mexico and the wall )

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3 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Trump's "green new deal"

I see what you did there :D

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Possibly for the Northwest Passage opening up and resources; but who really knows with Trump.

Not uncommon historically(Alaska, Florida, Louisiana, Gadsen). Really weird in this day and age though.

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37 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

LOL no...

Why not? Ken’s point is perfectly valid. The executive branch of the US government already prevents its departments from even using the phrase “climate change” in any tax payer funded reports, and for decades hasn’t let us collect data on national gun violence. Why wouldn’t they equally restrict measurements of climate in Greenland?

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5 minutes ago, iNow said:

Why not? Ken’s point is perfectly valid. The executive branch of the US government already prevents its departments from even using the phrase “climate change” in any tax payer funded reports, and for decades hasn’t let us collect data on national gun violence. Why wouldn’t they equally restrict measurements of climate in Greenland?

After (like it would ever happen) Trump bought Greenland?

He would be the most inciteful (not a typo) climate change guru...saw it coming when few did...ice melting visionary...ever!

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JC and I shouldn't comment any further...

Canada is technically at war with Denmark over Hans Island, which straddles the boundaries between Greenland and Canada.
Hostilities are on-going.
The Danes plant their flag on the island, and leave a bottle of Shnapps.
The Canadians plant our flag and leave a bottle of Canadian Club ( rye whiskey ).
No casualties yet.

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2 minutes ago, MigL said:

JC and I shouldn't comment any further...

Canada is technically at war with Denmark over Hans Island, which straddles the boundaries between Greenland and Canada.
Hostilities are on-going.
The Danes plant their flag on the island, and leave a bottle of Shnapps.
The Canadians plant our flag and leave a bottle of Canadian Club ( rye whiskey ).
No casualties yet.

So...the bottles are still there? intact?

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What if US would propose to each inhabitant of Greenland $1.000.000? (Something like $4.000.000 per family?) Would they support idea to become US citizens? If yes, then entire purchase would cost USA 60 billions of USD. 

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Why would that matter? Is Greenland a direct democracy?

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22 minutes ago, iNow said:

Why would that matter? Is Greenland a direct democracy?

There are rumors that some members of the royal family in Denmark joked that opinion of Greenland inhabitants should be asked.

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50 minutes ago, Moreno said:

There are rumors that some members of the royal family in Denmark joked that opinion of Greenland inhabitants should be asked.

Well, their constitution does give them the authority the royal family needs to change anything. 

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Greenland is autonomy. Does it allow its inhabitants decide themselves?

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3 hours ago, Moreno said:

Greenland is autonomy. Does it allow its inhabitants decide themselves?

 

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/16/20807928/donald-trump-buy-greenland-denmark

Quote

Greenland’s population remained majority Inuit, and in 1979 they successfully obtained “home rule” from Denmark, meaning most domestic affairs were handled by the Greenland government rather than from Copenhagen. In 2009, Greenland’s voters approved the Self-Government Act, a transition plan to have all power except for foreign affairs and defense transferred to Greenland locally.

 

https://www.lawfareblog.com/why-trump-cant-buy-greenland

Quote

The legislation authorized Greenland to enter into international agreements on its own regarding matters that solely affect Greenland’s interests, while setting up consultation requirements for any international agreements that Denmark may wish to pursue that implicate Greenland. <...> Under the 2009 act, it seems unlikely that Denmark views itself as having the legal authority to enter into a treaty effectuating such a “sale” without the permission of Greenland’s parliament. And even if Denmark could do so under the strict statutory terms of the act, this would be inconsistent with Denmark’s own express recognition of Greenland’s residents as a “people” entitled to self-determination and the international legal obligations that flow from it. 

 

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